John Boehner and the Republicans: Government Shutdown

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #1
    Shades of Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton... and some remember how that turned out. The deadline for continuing the funding of the federal government is the 4th of March, next week in fact. Jonathan Bernstein explains:

    Trapped between a rock and a hard place. And Obama surely knows it:

    Why? Because he has the Tea Party to the right of him...

    Allowing it to happen or no choice?

    Back in December, the president tightened the screws:

    So, what do Republicans do?

    Sounds OK, almost like a compromise. Except they're the same cuts:

    Steve Benen says it, not me:

    Oh, and Goldman-Sachs released a recent analysis of the Republican bill:

    I can't possibly imagine why tanking the economic recovery sounds like a good idea. Maybe someone can help me out?
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    I think Rachel Maddow got it right. John Boehner is really bad at his job.


    Video at link

     
  3. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #3
    I think that by raising the stakes in this manner, Boehner and his party now simply stand to lose even more by refusing to compromise.
     
  4. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #4
    Well, seeing as how the public seems to think anything and everything is controlled by the president, if the economy tanks (even if its brought on by Republican policies, though the Dems sure don't seem much better) they can just point to Obama, say "this is the change you asked for?" and rely on the fact that Americans have the political memory of a goldfish to ride into the white house on a white horse.
     
  5. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #5
    Then let's make sure the proper person is scapegoated.

    Honestly, any Tea Partier who supports Boehner's idiocy isn't worthy of the name. He's a classic fatcat Neo-Con.
     
  6. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #6
    Just keep in mind what the Republican's are fighting for, it's not you and me.
     
  7. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #7
    And unfortunately they are better than the Dems at getting what they want. I'd be surprised if the tea party compromises, they ran on getting rid of government, so I would think a government shutdown would achieve their campaign promises.
     
  8. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #8
    Really sad that the Democrats aren't even willing to make small-but-essential cuts to the budget in order to avoid a government shut down. Really sad that they have no comprehension of the financial situation they and the neo-cons have put us into.

    Grow up, gentlemen! You can't have your cake and eat it too. No one wants to cut the expenses THEY like.... the end result is that no cuts are ever made and we're all worse off for it. Hell, Obama won't even listen to his OWN debt commission.
     
  9. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #9

    First of all, since Republicans have not clearly stipulated what it is they'd like to cut in their latest negotiations, how can you say they're essential? Can you please detail what these 'small-but-essential' cuts are?

    Secondly, Obama's 2012 budget includes almost $25 billion in programme cuts, as well as proposing a $2.5 billion cut in energy assistance for those on low incomes, a move which displeased many on the left. He also announced a two year pay freeze on federal employees.

    How can you sit there with a straight face and say the Democratic leadership isn't willing to make concessions?



    Sorry, for someone who likes to accuse others of being low-information voters, this statement is farcical.

    The debt commission failed to get the requisite number of votes to make a formal recommendation to Congress and the White House... however, the White House budget director and the Treasury Secretary invited the commission to meet with them. Obama's statement was this:


    Something is really sad around here, but it doesn't have anything to do with Democratic comprehension of the issues.
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    I don't know why you try. This is a person who accused me of "thuggery" for helping my neighbors keep their homes and businesses.
     
  11. Pachang macrumors regular

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    #11
    There is no economic recovery in the US. The statistics released by the government hide the truth. The US economy will collapse no matter what happens. If they don't raise the debt ceiling and "shut down" government it will collapse it earlier but it wouldn't be as bad as it will be if they continue to spend like they are for another year or two.

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/ see how big the numbers are there. Cutting tens of billions is like using spoons to scoop water out of a sinking ship.
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #12
    That literally means the rest of the world's economy would collapse as well. No one is going to let that happen.
     
  13. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #13

    Please verify and post a link to the 'truth', thanks.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #14
    Didn't you see, the almighty clock of doom says it all ;)
     
  15. Pachang macrumors regular

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    #15
    lol "let". Who has the power to stop it?

    The rest of the world is only going to collapse in so far as the rest of the world owns US debt which won't be payed back or will be payed back with money created from thin air which will be worthless when the time actually comes.

    No one wants to see all the debt they own become worthless just like a bank doesn't want to see someone go bankrupt and not pay back their mortgage. The difference between a mortgage payer and the US is that the rest of the world knowingly lends the US money to pay off their debt. A bank would never lend someone who already owes them a mortgage more money just so they could pay it back. But the world does this favour for the US.

    This has been admitted by the US gov because they have said that they would not be able to make interest payments on the debt unless the debt ceiling is raised. This literally means they are admitting they are have go further into debt to pay of interest on the debt they already have.
     
  16. Pachang macrumors regular

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    #16
    exactly.
     
  17. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    Regardless of the concessions, or logic, or justification, the sad thing is that there is a political agenda being executed against the Obama Administration and there is a large group of nincompoop cheerleaders who want to see this Administration fail no matter how long it takes. Turning the country around now and compromising is not part of the GOP plan. They smell blood. It's a long term effort designed to defeat Obama and consolidate political power. Some of that plan even manages to find it's way into this forum.
     
  18. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #18
    My theory: What happens every time a hurricane is forecast to hit an area or a big blizzard might happen? People run to the store, buy up stockpiles of water and toilet paper and other stuff; far more than they need. They panic.

    Those on the right, especially the tea-party loons, are in panic mode. They are listening to people like Glenn Beck, buying up gold, stockpiling their assets, waiting for the economy to collapse so they can survive. It explains why they have zero interest in helping out their neighbors, they are too busy filling up their bomb shelters.
     
  19. Pachang macrumors regular

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    #19
    Just fyi I'm not american and don't watch Glenn Beck incase this was meant to be about me. If you are american and live in america, you should try and be prepared as well.
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    Oh, for a second there i thought you actually knew what you were talking about. From all the confusion and downright falsehoods, I'd say we're in the clear.
     
  21. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #21
    How?
     
  22. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #22
    I actually wrote my undergrad thesis on the political ramifications of major panic responses like this over the past 100 years in America. The power of a scared public must not be understated.
     
  23. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #23
    Would you mind sharing your conclusions or maybe even the paper itself? I'd be interested if you would send me a PM.
     
  24. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #24
    Hey, just because you don't have the economic sense to realize that 25 billion is a drop in the bucket (literally completely pointless irrelevant number), compared to the problem we face (www.usdebtclock.org) don't blame me. Liberals seriously need to spend some time on that site just absorbing the current situation, and then look at Obama's budget and look at just how much of it is just going to PAY THE INTEREST on our current debt. Also, just for the record, reducing future planned increases in spending is not the same as 'cutting' spending. We're in trouble folks... because of our debt situation, but more importantly because Obama and the Dems aren't even willing to admit we have a problem. They're either willfully ignorant of the fact that we need to DRAMATICALLY reduce spending, or they're trying to thrust us into economic collapse. I choose not to believe the latter. They're like a bunch of three year olds plugging their ears and singing to avoid hearing the truth. IT's going to destroy the country if we don't get some real leadership in there... and let me tell you, it isn't big-government Boehner. We need an entire congress and White House full of Ron and Rand Pauls to actually fix this problem. WE have to change our perception of the role of government into something that's actually sustainable.



    I didn't accuse you of anything, merely stated facts based on your own personal description of the intimidation techniques you used against a public official. You should be very proud.



    Yep.



    Exactly.



    Ah yes, damn prepared people! How dare they logically prepare for likely scenarios and take steps to protect themselves and their families. Personal responsibility is not only not important in your eyes, it's something to be ashamed of! Brilliant.
     
  25. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #25
    And conservatives, like yourself, need to spend some time looking in the mirror and blaming yourselves for voting for the party and the policies that created the debt we have today. Since around Nixon, EVERY time a Republican was elected, the debt was increased, and EVERY time a Democrat was elected, the debt decreased. We are facing unprecedented problems because of the EXACT policies you support, and the people who have shown they can fix it are being blocked by the people who made the problem in the first place.

    Tax cuts for the wealthy? Give me a break, that's anything but fiscally responsible when facing these problems.

    Opposing the Presidents proposed cuts for political reasons? Demanding cuts to social programs instead? Come on. Your party is systematically trying to destroy liberal programs, NOT trying to address the financial problems facing this country. To say otherwise is a joke, and it's not funny.

    You can continue to try to shift the blame all you want, but anyone with half a brain can use the internet and prove your claims as factually incorrect. (It's especially easy --cut-- when you don't provide cites for your claims).

    Facts: http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm

    Um, I'm prepared. I have an emergency kit, a first aid kit, and when a storm is coming, I make sure I have necessary essentials. Financially, I'm doing what I can to be prepared. That's very different from the chicken little behavior of the people who buy up gold every time Glenn Beck claims the apocolypse is upon us (coincidentally, right before a GoldLine commercial runs on his program :confused:) Being prepared is very different from cutting funding for programs that help people so you can continue to have the lowest taxes we've had in, well, forever. Cutting programs that actually help people avoid the financial destruction they are less than a paycheck from experiencing.

    I'm all for fiscal responsibility, and cutting waste, but the GOP's plans are a joke. There was a debt commission; there have been tons of reviews; the Clinton administration is a good model to follow... yet, the GOP wants to cut from programs that help the poor and disadvantaged. Why is that?
     

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