John Gruber doesn’t think there will be a 7S

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Rogifan, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. Rogifan macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    He said this on Twitter. His theory is there will be iPhone, iPhone Plus and iPhone Pro. Perhaps using the number 8 or maybe forgoing numbers all together. I get it and in some ways it makes sense in terms of naming conventions. But the rumors around iPhone 8 mostly point to new material (glass), smaller bezels and OLED display. What exactly are ‘pro’ about those? They might make the phone more expensive but I’m not sure what makes them ‘pro’ features. Assuming ‘pro’ means for professionals. Something else Gruber mentioned is the iPhone Pro could be thicker and have longer battery life. But I would argue that’s something everyone wants and even if you’re not using your phone for your job or to earn a living you want longer battery life. Everyone complains about that.

    Part of me thinks we’ll see an upgrade to the 7 and the 8 will be something different all together. But since the 7 had a much similar design to the 6 I can’t see Apple keeping that design for another year. On the other hand I can’t see them going to a new design for just one year, assuming the 8 is what future iPhones will look like. For as many leaks as we’ve had about iPhone it seems like no one really has a good read on what the lineup will look like this fall.
  2. Sunny1990 Suspended


    Feb 13, 2015
    I don't trust Gruber. There are leaks and rumors about iPhone 7S and iPhone 7S Plus retaining same design with Glass back, There is strong possibility based on rumors that there will be three iPhone's this year :- iPhone 7S iPhone 7S Plus [Same design with glass back] and iPhone 8 [ All new design with bezel less OLED display]

    Link to the Article :-


  3. Jetcat3 macrumors 6502

    May 3, 2015
    I have to admit that glass back 7s Plus looks really nice. Looks like a stainless steel edge too. Do y'all think the 7s and 7s Plus will stick with LCD displays then?
  4. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    To be clear Gruber wasn’t saying this based on inside information, just speculation on his part.

    If there is a 7S that looks very similar to the 7 then I think the 8 will be marketed more based on design than pro features. The 8 will be the expensive sexy phone and the 7S will be the boring buy cheaper model. And I’m not convinced Apple would call it the iPhone Pro. A nicer looking phone aesthetically doesn’t make it ‘pro’.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 7, 2017 ---
    The glass back does look nice but I’m not crazy about the chrome around the camera bump . I don’t think Apple needs to own the bump. If they can find a way to make it blend in better that would be my preference. And if the front still has massive bezels the phone is really going to look dated.
  5. jonnyb macrumors 65816

    Jan 21, 2005
    Rye/London, UK
    Pro could alienate potential buyers. Why would Apple *not* want to sell as many of them as possible? They surely don’t want people thinking “Oh, it’s a Pro, that’s not for me”

    So, I think the names will reflect the old-style ‘good, better, best’ approach.

    iPhone 8
    iPhone 8 Plus
    iPhone 8 AE (Advanced Edition)

    Advanced edition because you’re getting ‘next year’s’ phone this year. Perhaps because next year the advanced edition just becomes the norm and there will be a small version and a big version. 2017’s 3 phones are an evolutionary anomaly. It goes back to normal in 2018.
  6. Ledsteplin macrumors 6502a


    Oct 23, 2013
    Florence, AL
    Don't ask where the pic came from. I got it from a friend who got it from a friend who got who knows where or how. May not mean a thing.

  7. ssrij Suspended

    Dec 16, 2016
    United Kingdom
    F A K E
  8. Relentless Power macrumors Penryn

    Relentless Power

    Jul 12, 2016
    Yes. LCD likely will remain with the "7S" model, primarily being its more affordable for the majority and widespread for more mass production versus the OLED yield rates. On a side note, Apple has the best LCD displays in in the cell phone industry based off my usage over the years.
  9. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

    Aug 29, 2006
    Washington DC
    That is what they want.

    The entire point is to keep demand low because they're going to be putting stuff in it that they can't make 200 million of yet. Either they keep demand low because of the high price or the thing will have a 9 month waiting list.
  10. jonnyb macrumors 65816

    Jan 21, 2005
    Rye/London, UK
    It might be what they need to do short term, but ultimately saddling that model with the ‘Pro’ suffix is pointless.
  11. rasputin1969 macrumors 6502

    Mar 4, 2010
    There’s a real danger in that. Many users upgrade because they want the latest and best and if Apple restrict demand up jacking up the already high price then I don’t see those users settling for a 7S model, especially when Samsung sell the fantastic looking S8 for the same.
  12. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    I don’t know why it matters. A really high price could alienate consumers and no doubt Samsung and others would pounce. I’m skeptical that Apple will have all these amazing things in the iPhone 8 that no other phone has.
  13. aylk, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017

    aylk macrumors regular


    Jan 29, 2010
    I'm pretty sure this is the real 2017 LCD iPhone...

    b2110ba4462309f79cda67ec780e0cf3d6cad677.jpg Unknown.jpeg DGnplG9WAAAFtnY.jpg Unknown-8.jpeg Unknown-7.jpeg Unknown-5.jpeg Unknown-6.jpeg fullsizerender 16.jpg Unknown-3.jpeg Unknown-11.jpeg

    Source: @VenyaGeskin1
  14. LoveToMacRumors macrumors 68020


    Feb 15, 2015
    So iPhone 7S series touch ID on the back. bigger screen. ?
  15. ssrij Suspended

    Dec 16, 2016
    United Kingdom
    No way that is true. The are fake Chinese phones or dummies. Apple will never put the touch ID on the back and make the front look so ugly. Also, the back will be made using glass to support wireless charging. The back on those photos is made of aluminium. F A K E

    This is what the 7S will most likely look like:
  16. michael9891 macrumors 65816

    Sep 26, 2016
    Apple want to keep demand low because they can't make enough of the OLED model? Don't think so.
  17. ssrij Suspended

    Dec 16, 2016
    United Kingdom
    Samsung can make 130 million 5.8-inch OLED screens in one year if the yield rate is 100%. But we know from several reports that the yield rate is currently at 60%, so Samsung can only make 78 million 5.8-inch OLED screens in one year, given the yield rate doesn't improve. This means 6.5 million 5.8-inch OLED screens in one month.

    6.5 million screens a month is a lot, but whether its enough to meet demand depends on how many people are willing to shell out $999/1099 upfront or $41/45 p/m on it.

    You have to understand that the iPhone 8's price will be more than the 7 Plus 256GB, which fewer people buy. The only reason people shell out $969 on it is for the extra storage (obviously, if you don't need so much storage why pay extra? All iPhone 7 Plus models are identical except storage). Others don't shell out so much money because they don't need a Plus model or can't afford it. Now, for $999 you will be getting a base model iPhone 8 with 64GB of storage. This won't be enough for people who spend $969 for 256GB Plus, so they will have to spend $1099 to buy the model with 256GB storage. Now, people who cannot afford to buy a 256GB Plus in the first place, will NOT be able to purchase a 256GB iPhone 8 or even a 64GB iPhone 8. People who CAN afford to buy a 256GB Plus, will now have to spend $150 more to get the 256GB iPhone 8, and since fewer people buy the 256GB Plus, even fewer people will be willing to spend the extra.

    So, the only people in a position to buy the iPhone 8 are:

    - People who usually purchase a Plus model with 256GB of storage and don't mind paying $150 extra
    - People who usually purchase a Plus model with 256GB of storage, but can't pay the $150 more so decide to pay $50 and settle with 1/3rd of the storage (most people will not be doing this)
    - People who have been saving money for an upgrade or can afford to spend $999/1099 upfront
    - People who can afford to spend $50/55 a month on the iPhone Upgrade Program
    - People who can afford to spend $41/45 a month + carrier plan fees

    This means only very specific set of people are in a position to buy the iPhone 8. Now whether the number of people in that position exceeds 6.5 million or not is unknown (personally, I think there's more than 6.5 million people in that position), but most likely there will be more demand than supply in the first few months and so Apple will try to keep demand low in order to make sure every one gets their iPhone 8 in reasonable time.

    TL;DR: Most people will be buying the iPhone 7S. Some people will be buying the iPhone 8 because they can afford to shell out so much $$$ for it. The main reason for a high price tag is to deter people from buying the 8 because the supply is going to be low.
  18. Infiniverse48, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017

    Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 28, 2017
    Yeah. Gruber doesn't know what he's talking about, and my logical questions to him go unanswered because he realizes he may be wrong. Such as him saying the iPhone Pro will be thicker which means Pro....uhhh what? The iPhone 7s will be thicker too due to the wireless charging, so I asked why won't that be Pro too?

    I also asked him what he believes next year's Plus-sized OLED will be called (which he thinks will be 6.6"). To which he did not reply when I told him in his theory it would be called 'iPhone Plus Pro' or 'iPhone Pro Plus' which are among the worst names in marketing history.

    I also suggested to him that a 6.6" device next year cannot happen, because it would be a larger device than the Plus, to which he questioned why? Why? Really? The 5.8" device this year is going to be 5mm taller and 4mm wider than the 4.7" device. 4.7" > 5.8" = 1.1". If there were a 6.6" device next year, simple math tells you 5.5" > 6.6" = 1.1" and therefore the proportional increases would be met with proportional increases in height and width, therefore you'd have a Plus-sized OLED which is 5mm taller and 4mm wider than the current Plus, which absolutely cannot grow in size any more. The screen next year has to be such that the Plus sized device remains virtually identical in size.
  19. warshaw macrumors newbie

    Nov 22, 2009
    I don't know why people scream FAKE at these images. In my opinion, these are the most real looking images I have seen. The phone with the glass back posted in the images above looks incredibly fake to me. The shiny chrome edges and the shiny chrome ring around the cameras are not something I think Apple would make. On the other hand, the second set of images have the aluminum raised to meet up with the cameras and a slim piece of metal between them. This seems way too detailed to be fake. I hope this one is real because I will buy it.
  20. joeblow7777 macrumors 603

    Sep 7, 2010
    I've said it many times before, "Pro" is just a marketing term that means more features and more expensive.

    The idea that it means features targeted at "professionals" doesn't make much sense given that the needs of different professionals vary greatly.
  21. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 28, 2017
    Thank you for sound logic. You're one of the only ones with it regarding this.

    I also considered 'Advanced' as a marketing term for this iPhone. This iPhone will definitely have a new marketing term to draw attention to it, which definitely won't be Pro IMO.

    This is hypothetical (I don't think it will be infinity), but consider these two different headlines in all major news outlets on September 6th:

    'Apple announces the new iPhone Infinity'

    'Apple announces the new iPhone Pro'

    Which of these would garner more interest, more clicks?
  22. joeblow7777 macrumors 603

    Sep 7, 2010
    I'm a high school teacher, and I see students using MacBook Pros, iPad Pros, and Surface Pros all the time. I've really never heard anyone say, "Oh, I can't or shouldn't get this device because it's just for professionals."

    To be honest, Macrumors is probably the only place where I see people take it so literally. Everyone else just takes "Pro" to mean the better (more expensive) model, and those who want the best will buy it.
  23. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 28, 2017
    It's for professionals, hence Apple specifically stating it.
  24. The Game 161 macrumors P6

    The Game 161

    Dec 15, 2010
    no chance

    there will be an iphone 8 and 8 plus next year with both OLED but this year 7s and 7s plus with the iphone edition i'm guessing.
  25. joeblow7777 macrumors 603

    Sep 7, 2010
    That addresses none of what I said.

    You see, it's called "marketing". Apple certainly wants to cultivate an image of smart, successful, people using their high end products. My question is, what is the definition of a "professional"? I could be a professional acrobat, in which case how does Pencil support or a keyboard help me? If "professional" just means someone who works at a desk in an office, then they should call it the MacBook/iPad "Cubicle" or "desk jockey". Those names don't sound as good though. Slap "Pro" on something and it suddenly makes it sound better and more elite.

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