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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Feb 12, 2006.
I don't see how you can place any kind of blame on the aftereffects of a natural disaster the size of Katrina. Nor do I understand why it's necessary to place blame. Sure, let's learn lessons, but, let's also look at it as constructive criticism for the purposes of improving our responses to such situations.
The federal government failed in its primary purpose after Katrina. Someone most certainly is to blame and we do need to find out who so they aren't in power if it happens again.
and this report is one that the dems called partisan. if a GOP-favored report heavily blames the administration, doesn't it make you wonder how badly the administration and FEMA really ****ed it up? or do you think the fed really has no responsibility?
So I ask, is it the federal governments' job to take care of everyone? If so, then the United States would not be a free country, it would be a communist state. Mississippi is doing it's part to rebuild on its own. We have capable senators and representatives who have found the funds with the support of plans for rebuilding. No blame being place here. Just a lot of hope and wishes for new communities to live in. Communities they love, and will stay to rebuild.
Here's an article from one of our newspapers, The Clarion Ledger, supporting my (and many others') beliefs. Pardon the article pasting, the link is dead.
One thing I noticed in the national news right after Hurricane Katrina, is that when Anderson Cooper went to the Mississippi Coast looking for sad and desperate people, he found people with hope. They were taking him and his crew in, and making sure they were taken care of since they were visiting. It's the Hospitality State, after all. So then the national news left, finding no one who would complain.
One more thing, and I wish I had data to back it up. There was a survey done after Katrina of hurricane victims. Only about 50-60% of respondents who were affected by Katrina said they would rebuild and return to their homes. Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, asked them to pull out the data for Mississippi only. The percentage of respondents who said they will return and rebuild was above 90% for our state.
So you see, I'm sorry if I don't believe we should place blame somewhere, let alone expect someone else to take care of us. It's the desire to do well on our own (despite our perceived shortcomings) that has led to so many success stories to come out of Mississippi.
Check out this site for a few examples of those successes.
In a case like this... well, yeah. That's pretty much what FEMA's for. This isn't just about blame, it's supposed to be about figuring out what went wrong to make sure it doesn't happen again. Not saying local gov didn't drop the ball in some areas either, but if there's another natural disaster or terrorist attack, I want to know the fed is there to do what they're supposed to even if local doesn't cross every T and dot every I. This was incompetence all around, and also, the fact that an unqualified crony was put in charge of something so important is just a drop in the bucket of a larger problem. People are angry, as well they should be, and the fact that people are coming together and helping each other out doesn't fix the larger, underlying problems. So we should absolutely hold those who are responsible accountable.
Kind of ironic that the same people who are telling others to be accountable for themselves are not wanting to take any responsibility for themselves and their actions (or lack thereof).
In times of widespread natural disaster you're damned right it's the government's job to take care of everyone and it ain't got jack **** to do with your simplistic notions of communism.
I recall seeing quite a few reports from the Mississippi area where residents were distraught and upset about the lack of government response.
I really wonder what the home ownership rates were for Mississippi v. New Orleans, too, as many un- or underemployed renters don't have much reason to return.
Poppycock. According to your very own article, your state still took $6B in federal handouts. Am I supposed to think you're pulling yourselves up by your own bootstraps in comparison because Lousiana got an extra two billion?
Nice language pseudobrit. Anger and foul language will get you nowhere in a civil discussion.
Is "poppycock" foul language?
Only if you're a poppy.
Two things to keep in mind about this report: (1) it was not bipartisan, and (2) the White House refused to cooperate fully. One can only imagine what a independent commission investigation with full subpoena powers might have found.
?? I'm not mad at anyone except the federal government for dereliction of duty.
Did you have something specific to comment on or did you run out after the critique of my pottymouth?
Careful pseudo, you don't want to get banned again.
But, yeah, iSaint, we disagree with you, but I was kind of expecting a response. Perhaps you could clarify your position. Would you not want help during such a situation? Isn't that what our tax dollars are supposed to pay for?
I'm guessing that when H5N1 hits, Mississippi will be making it's own Tamiflu, cos anything else would be Communist. (maybe i shouldn't be using that kind of language, probably up there with balderdash)
I just believe there's a lot to be said for taking what money that has been offered, and doing the best you can with it. There's a lot of time and money being wasted on blame. It hasn't been long enough to reflect on responsibility and the response to Hurricane Katrina. If they reviewed the entire process in about two or three years, then you would have the benefit of some of the rebuilding efforts rather than a six month knee-jerk reaction to a major natural disaster, the impact of which no one could estimate.
Perhaps my outlook is a positive one, so I'm looking at things in a positive light. When I turn on Wolf Blitzer and he has eight tv screens of bad news going on, it pains me for the people involved. But, I also know the media is digging deep for the bad news instead of talking to those who have hope. Maybe if they did that more it would inspire more people to take on new responsibility for helping themselves.
The time for an enquiry into incompetence and ineptitude (which I think was the remit of this) should be as soon as possible after the event. What's the point in doing it a few years later? People's memory will have faded, those involved may have "moved on", and if there are any important lessons to be learned for future events, surely the changes have to be in place asap.
I kind of understand your optimistic attitude, but hundreds of people died here, maybe some needlessly - if I was paying people to ensure public safety I'd want answers pretty damned quick.
In my experience, the only time people are worried about the "blame game" is when they, or those they support, are to blame.
I suspect that's the point.
iSaint, here's where I'm gonna disagree with ya:
After 9-11, which was a disaster even if not a natural one, we discovered that the various responses of local, state and federal government were unequal to the task of responding.
We spent tens of billions of dollars over 5 years in order to prepare for disaster response, including the creation of an entirely new federal department that would coordinate efforts of all other agencies in case of another large disaster.
The disaster arrived in August 2005 and the government's response was, if anything, even more confused and ineffectual than before the creation of Homeland Security and the huge cash layout.
This was due partly to not having the right tools on hand, partly to government indifference, and partly to the incompetent cronies appointed by the man in charge.
What has all this time and effort in order to "secure" the "homeland" accomplished? On the federal level, it's created a whole new bureacracy that is incapable of dealing with disaster. The top men in charge were unable to coordinate responses, which is their primary function, and allowed the disaster to continue unabated. I'm obviously not saying they should've been able to stop the hurricane, but they should've been able to stop the needless suffering afterwards.
It was a giant ***-up that proved Bush's administration is still, after five years, tens of billions of dollars and a blank check to do as he pleases, incapable of handling the responsibilities of running an effective government.
*That's* why *I'm* upset at Bush. If you wanna give him a free ride, *again*, I will have to respectfully disagree with your position.
you "know" that, eh?
Just like other posts on this thread "know" whatever facts are claimed. It's all a matter of personal opinion. I have mine, you have yours...but, we're all one big happy family, right?!
are you really claiming no difference between opinion and fact?
Unless you have said documents in hand, then you're simply basing your opinions on wherever you get your fact...news media possibly? There are truths to much of the reporting that goes on these days. But, it's still only what the reporters/media moguls/politicians want you to hear. There's so much that goes on behind the scenes that no one really knows the truth.
I give few politicians any credibility, but I certainly don't desire their job. If Gore, or anyone else, were in office can anyone guarantee that things would have been better? If you say yes, then that's purely speculation on your part.
I have an odd stance on things...it's hard for me to simply criticize and gripe about something someone else does. I'm a voter, and I voice my opinions that way. Does someone have a running discussion board criticizing whatever your vocation is? There's a certain amount of respect that has to be given among ourselves in order to live in community. Yes, I get upset about things people do. Say, a restaurant messes up my order. People make mistakes, they're human, so I can't imagine holding someone accountable for every action given their humanity. I'm typically more compassionate towards the server who has to tell me about my messed up order than some people might be.
And, yes, I know the POTUS should be held to a higher level of accountability. But as I said above, there's so much that goes on behind the scenes in this world on just about every level, that I don't get worked up about it.
you took what is in essence an indefensible position, and when called out on it you get into a philosophical discussion on the nature of truth.
some claims are easier to prove than others. i could grab a figure for 2005's GDP and cite a source. it's specific and easily demonstrated or falsified. to say that "the media" (whoever that includes) goes out of its way to report bad news while ignoring the good is nothing more than a misinformed opinion. if you want to present it as fact, go and find a study which supports your claim and we can all have a look to see if we feel the study has merit. in the meantime, don't pretend to "know" something that's just your opinion.
I won't if you won't!
lame. if i've done it, point it out.