Killing Newborn Babies No Different To Abortion, Say Medical Ethicists

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ericrwalker, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #1
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    If we are just going off of potential then men should be restricted from masterbation unless they have a host. In fact to ensure no potential for life is wasted we should use up every woman's eggs immediately, if women aren't pregnant they are murdering potential lives.

    I don't agree with abortions being the same as post birth murder. The baby can be cared for without using the woman's body as host at that point and is its own person.
     
  3. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #3
    Highlight for me..


    Feel the burn!
     
  4. ericrwalker thread starter macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    Potential life and actual life are different though.
     
  5. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #5
    Duh!

    That's the point he was trying to make.
     
  6. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    This is flawed logic. Spermatozoa aren't zygotes anymore than unfertilized eggs are.
     
  7. ericrwalker thread starter macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #7

    Thanks for making it clear for me. I read too quick there.
     
  8. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    There is an INCREDIBLY HUGE difference. You are letting religion muddle your thinking. Post conception cells are alive and of course sperm and eggs are also alive and they have potential to develop into a viable human being. Life starts at conception in as far as the trigger has been pulled allowing the start of development, but that is far from being a viable baby.

    However we don't give rights to cell clusters, although the religious right wants to. The religious right wants to classify cell clusters not just as life, but as human life equal to you and me. So when they say "Life" they mean a Human Being with full rights under the law. Of course, I disagree. Fetuses have never been given rights until they are viable outside the womb in essence born babies.

    The issue is what is to be done about it. What disturbs me the most is that the Religious Right and the Republicans in bed with them continually rant about getting government out of our lives while simultaneously pushing their version of social engineering- trying to outlaw all abortions *AND* restricting contraception, they are attempting to project their religious views on everyone else. They are a bunch of hypocrites.

    Your Santorum avatar is noted. I'm a gambler. I'd love to see him get the GOP nomination, then I'd be thrilled to see him go down in flames in a National election. Bring it on... :D

    SANTORUM 2012!
     
  9. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #9
    Having Santorum win the Republican nomination would be the best thing to happen to the Republican parry in 30 years. When he loses Mondale-style, the Republicans can finally move beyond their antiquated social issues platform.
     
  10. ericrwalker thread starter macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #10
    My avatar is in response to YG17's signature. When you say my religious thinking can you explain that to me? I am not religious at all.




    ----------

    Obama is likely to lose Carter style.
     
  11. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #11
    What evidence do you have to support this? Just about every poll has him winning, or at worse, in a statistical tie.
     
  12. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #12
    Yeah, it's YG17's monthly just-about-every-poll-has-Obama-winning post. Didn't quite work out as well for you last time, as I recall.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #13
    Both of which have the potential to become children when combined. A fetus is useless without its host mother much like sperm is useless without an egg.
     
  14. ericrwalker thread starter macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #14
    Gut feeling, wishful thinking maybe?
     
  15. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #15
    How is this no different? Newborn babies are not 'alive'?!
    Even if you do accept this, it opens up a whole slippery slope.
     
  16. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    The article itself is begging the question, so it makes it tough to really piece together the argument itself. I will try to work through the mess that they have put in the article though.

    Premise:

    I would generally agree with this statement. However, who is supporting abortion at that stage?

    The problem I am seeing is that the above statement is significantly different from the statement "Killing Newborn Babies No Different To Abortion."

    The fallacy of equivocation comes to mind. This is solely from the article, if it is any indication of the paper there are serious problems. I will await the actual paper itself, I suspect though that the logical fallacies are not unique to the article and it will not be accepted.
     
  17. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    Go ahead, prove me wrong.

    I used your method of Googling "Obama polls" and looking at the first result. Rasumussen has him beating both Romney and Santorum.

    If you disagree, please, prove me wrong and provide polls showing Obama losing in Carter-like fashion. The best you could do last time was find one showing Obama tied with Romney.
     
  18. ericrwalker thread starter macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #18
    who? you mean besides Obama? He did oppose a bill preventing partial-birth abortion.
     
  19. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    Can you link to the specific bill? I want to be sure we are on the same page.

    This also does nothing to address the other problems in the article (and likely the paper itself). You seem to have accepted the argument, so please respond to the specific issues I have pointed out.

    Namely that the paper is attempting to equivocate terms that are not equivalent to push a false premise.
     
  20. mikeyredk macrumors 65816

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    I think Santorum will win Dewey style :D
     
  21. ericrwalker thread starter macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #21
    He didn't vote on the bill, but he stated his position more than once.

    http://www.lifenews.com/2008/04/27/nat-3896/
     
  22. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    #22
    From your article:

    So that must be where you have a problem, yes? No exceptions?
     
  23. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #23
    That bill deserved to be killed. It applied a politically manipulative and inaccurate label, unrecognized in the medical profession, to a technical procedure only a few doctors in the nation are qualified to perform, and already only performed in precisely the emergency circumstances under which it is still defensible to perform it. Its supporters intentionally lied that irresponsible harlots were getting knocked up, and for some reason waiting until week 39 to have an elective abortion by means of a traumatic surgical procedure, presumably while cackling and rubbing their hands together over how much they love murdering babies. The bill serves no practical legislative purpose. It was essentially a PR campaign to influence the public debate about abortion by mischaracterizing it, and to get Americans started on what the supporters intended to be a boil-the-frog approach to outlawing abortion entirely.

    The passage of that bill was a triumph of politics over rationality, of politicians (Republican and Democrat alike) cowardly pandering to ignorance their own peers cultivated instead of standing up to correct it at the risk of failing and ending up dishonestly tarred in exactly the way you have tried to do here. It was exactly the sort of wasteful nonsense conservatives like to claim they oppose, except, of course, when it means advancing an authoritarian agenda in which the conservatives themselves are the authorities.
     
  24. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    Without going into whether "life begins at conception," it's true that no amount of incubation will allow a sperm or an egg to develop into a person. A zygote (or fetus) does not meet that criterion.
     
  25. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    We aren't talking about incubation though, just potential. I could be wrong here but once a fetus begins growth it is impossible to remove it from the host without killing it until it is self sustaining (only times abortions are allowed). I could see this holding up in late term abortion arguments, but most people shy away from that anyways.
     

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