Killing protected species is OK, if your green

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Shivetya, Sep 14, 2009.

  1. Shivetya macrumors 65816

    Jan 16, 2008

    Basically whats going on is that Exxon got whacked with some high fines for birds dieing on their property; which is fine - if they aren't doing what they could reasonably do to prevent it they need to pay; yet wind farms seem to get a free pass. The excuse is that its either too expensive financially or politically to do anything.

    I have also read that wind farms are even more deadly when it comes to bats.

    sorry, but wind needs to take a back seat to solar; for a green source; until they can figure out how to not to be so murderous to animals. This is just nuts that one aspect on an industry can wholesale slaughter wildlife all because its good for the environment... just not the animals environment.
  2. djellison macrumors 68020

    Feb 2, 2007
    Pasadena CA
    And how long till we find some negative impact of solar? If you're talking PV arrays - then their manufacture isn't exactly green green green. If you're talking solar thermal - then I'm sure the odd bird spotting a nice seat gets fried.

    How many birds get killed by cars? By hunting? etc etc etc. What is the potential impact of the human species carbon footprint on bird species? Deforestation? etc etc etc. The list goes on.

    In the grand scheme of things, I'm sure the impact of wind power, when sited responsibly, is an accounting error when it comes to human impact on bird species.
  3. MyDesktopBroke macrumors 6502

    Jun 2, 2007
    Would I like to see a way that would not harm animals unnecessarily? Of course, but if you have no problem with the meat industry killing millions of animals for food, than you should have no problem with this. Either way, an animal is being killed to provide for people.
  4. fivepoint macrumors 65816


    Sep 28, 2007
    Between 1 and 6 birds per year? Put me in the 'don't care' category.
    The special circumstance for 'green' companies is lame, but other than that, a non-story. :(
  5. diamond.g macrumors 603


    Mar 20, 2007
    Per megawatt. So 25k MW is between 25k to 150k birds...
  6. Randman macrumors 65816


    Jul 28, 2008
    Jacksonville, Fla
  7. fivepoint macrumors 65816


    Sep 28, 2007
    Oh. Oops, geez! Perhaps there's a reason these birds were already a threatened species? They don't seem too bright. :D
  8. sikkinixx macrumors 68020


    Jul 10, 2005
    Rocketing through the sky!
    you cold blooded.
  9. leekohler macrumors G5


    Dec 22, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois
    OMG- we actually agree. I mean, how many birds get sucked into jet engines?
  10. yg17 macrumors G5


    Aug 1, 2004
    St. Louis, MO
    It depends how many people in first class ordered chicken instead of fish.
  11. Wotan31 macrumors 6502

    Jun 5, 2008
    Hahaha you can't be serious. A couple of birds? LMAO how many fish die in dam turbines? How much other wildlife dies from the pollution from coal and nuclear power plants?

    Wind turbines = "murderous" is probably the funniest environazi statement I've read in a while. The fact is we need energy. Lots of it. And no matter how we make it, there's some animals that are going to get killed. So what?
  12. Ugg macrumors 68000


    Apr 7, 2003
    Altamont Pass totally failed to take into account the birds. Since then, most wind installations have done much better. If shivvy is so worried about our feathered friends, he'd be better off destroying all high rise buildings, airplanes, cars, trucks and trains.

    I wonder how many birds die at coal fired power plants every year, much less the habitat that is destroyed by the mines themselves...
  13. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

    Mar 9, 2005
    Where do they get that estimate?? 1-6 birds per year by that logic all the area around a 5000 megawat wind farm would be strewn with dead birds and I've been to wind farms and that isnt the case.
  14. djellison macrumors 68020

    Feb 2, 2007
    Pasadena CA
    Good point - I've been to the large wind farm near Grenada, Spain - and there were no dead bird mountains there either.
  15. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Feb 2, 2009
    Toronto, Ontario
    Put me under the "I don't care" category, I kill at least 20 birds a year purposely. The only part that bothers me is that its okay when we nail big corps with fines, but if its wind energy they get a pass.
  16. Berlepsch macrumors 6502


    Oct 22, 2007
    Did you know that it takes an area of about 500 x 500 m of solar cells to create the same amount of electricity as a 5 MW windmill (which has a footprint of maybe 15 x 15 m)?

    How many birds could live and breed on such a vast field? I'm pretty sure that they clearly outnumber the 30 birds that are killed per year by the wind turbine.

    Regarding the dead birds - they are probably eaten quickly by scavengers, so it is not surprising that you don't find them lying around.
  17. chrmjenkins macrumors 603


    Oct 29, 2007
    Consider the alternative. We can either kill quite a few of one species with wind turbines, or we can kill every species by not scaling back on polluting power methods. Your choice.
  18. Wotan31 macrumors 6502

    Jun 5, 2008
    Very well said. Wind energy is one of the cleanest and most efficient sources we have today.
  19. aethelbert macrumors 601

    Jun 1, 2007
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Not as many as get picked off by the bird snipers at airports. That's gotta be an interesting job.
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4


    May 18, 2008
    I'd love to see how intense some of those guys get.

    "WE'VE GOT A BOGEY AT 3 CLICKS NORTHWEST, Do I have authorization to take the shot?"


    *deep breath held in* BOOM

    "Negative, target is still incoming"

    "My God!"

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