Kuo: All 5G iPhones on Track to Launch in Fall 2020, Including Both Sub-6GHz and mmWave Models

1rottenapple

macrumors 68020
Apr 21, 2004
2,426
640



Last month, reputable Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said he expected four 5G-enabled iPhones to launch in the second half of 2020, including models with both sub-6GHz and mmWave support depending on the region.


Kuo said iPhone models with mmWave would be available in five markets, including the United States, Canada, Japan, Korea, and the United Kingdom, adding that Apple may disable 5G functionality in countries that do not offer 5G service or have a shallow 5G penetration rate to reduce production costs.

Kuo has now doubled down on his prediction. In a follow-up research note today, viewed by MacRumors, he said Apple is still on track to release both sub-6GHz and sub-6GHz-plus-mmWave iPhone models simultaneously in the second half of 2020, with shipments beginning in the late third quarter or early fourth quarter.

Last week, analyst Mehdi Hosseini had disagreed with Kuo's timeframe, claiming that sub-6GHz models would launch in September 2020 and mmWave models would follow in December 2020 or January 2021.

Kuo says development of 5G iPhones with both sub-6GHz and mmWave support is progressing as scheduled, however, and he has the more reputable track record as it relates to forecasting Apple's roadmap. So, as of now, it looks like the entire 5G iPhone lineup will be announced in September as usual.

Article Link: Kuo: All 5G iPhones on Track to Launch in Fall 2020, Including Both Sub-6GHz and mmWave Models
So will all 2020 iPhones have 4g lte and 5g in the same model. Or is there an option to buy a lte model only? I really don’t care for 5g. I have unlimited for $25 so paying more doesn’t appeal to me n
 

EugW

macrumors 604
Jun 18, 2017
7,545
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Interesting. I use my surface pro tethered to my iphone a ton, probably most days for a few hours and don't notice it's substantially slower than my desktop at home/office. I don't doubt that it probably is, but it doesn't seem very noticeable, but I suppose it also depends on which webpages I'm viewing.
If the LTE connection is always excellent and there is no congestion, then you have nothing to worry about.

Others are not so lucky.
 
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HVDynamo

macrumors 6502
Feb 21, 2011
335
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What part, exactly, is more sturdy? I’m not saying lightning is as bad as micro usb, but those lightning cables last months at most.

“This argument may not be supported.”
I’m referring to the connector itself. Not the cable. I have another post in here where I detail it, but short story is my friend who has lots of USB-C things and a lightning phone for work. He is hard on. Things, the lightning ports have survived, some USB-C have not.
 

vmistery

macrumors 6502a
Apr 6, 2010
648
377
UK
Well my X is still going on just, be perfect with a new battery. I will very likely upgrade this year though especially if it’s the design change year As well as 5G. The question really will be if I will trade this X in or keep the old 6s as a backup phone for another 2 years.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2003
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It's not necessarily the speed but more the bandwidth that 5G will bring. Think back to the last time you were in a very crowded place. Could be anything semi-large like a shopping mall to something incredibly large like a stadium. You'll have horrendous internet because there just isn't enough bandwidth to account for all the people.

That's the most exciting thing about 5G. It'll bring a much higher bandwidth which means the amount of devices able to connect at the same time goes up. Being in a stadium, or whatever, now means you won't be cut off from the internet or have to resort to crappy public wifi.

I'm lucky enough to live in a country where coverage is not a problem at all. But we live in incredibly dense cities because of how small the country is. Having more bandwidth will definitely be a positive for all of us in that regard!
That’s my point... 5G seems focused on data rate and capacity. What you’re calling bandwidth, I’d call capacity. I’m not capacity limited. I’m in a pretty dense city, and for the most part I’m fine when I’m on the street. When I find myself in a stadium, I’m usually watching some kind of event rather than using the web. My problem is just with day to day access. Needing to leave the office to get enough signal. As far as I can tell, 5G doesn’t address my problems. It addresses something, for sure, but it‘s not a motivator for me.
 

Michael Sanford

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Dec 31, 2019
6
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I’m going to have my youngest apply for medical school and then neurosurgery residency to be able to operate on all the new brain tumors that 5G will eventually cause.
 
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ryanwarsaw

macrumors 68030
Apr 7, 2007
2,589
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I'm a busy guy. In fact my overlord Mr. Bezos insists i keep busy and limits my bathroom breaks in the warehouse. Is 5G going to be so fast my bathroom breaks get shorter?
 

4jasontv

macrumors 68000
Jul 31, 2011
1,934
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I’m referring to the connector itself. Not the cable. I have another post in here where I detail it, but short story is my friend who has lots of USB-C things and a lightning phone for work. He is hard on. Things, the lightning ports have survived, some USB-C have not.
Sure. OK. I'd buy that. I'd still prefer USB C because I am not hard on my stuff and I hate rounding up three cable for four devices.
 

iJustines

macrumors member
Dec 1, 2019
68
31
Your opinion is not relevant to the 200 million who already bought a notch screen. Be a man and deal with reality. You’re not entitled to a notchless screen. ❌

Where do you put all these sensors? Where? Have you ever considered that? Deal with reality. Whining and crying won’t get you what you want.❌
The people who bought it don't have to fully relevant to my opinion and the reality is that you are already indoctrinated by a notch screen.
 

Murkrage

macrumors newbie
Aug 31, 2017
12
9
That’s my point... 5G seems focused on data rate and capacity. What you’re calling bandwidth, I’d call capacity. I’m not capacity limited. I’m in a pretty dense city, and for the most part I’m fine when I’m on the street. When I find myself in a stadium, I’m usually watching some kind of event rather than using the web. My problem is just with day to day access. Needing to leave the office to get enough signal. As far as I can tell, 5G doesn’t address my problems. It addresses something, for sure, but it‘s not a motivator for me.
Bandwidth is capacity. It's the amount available to be spread around to different connections. In a perfect world 10 connections over a gigabit connection could simultaneously do 100Mbit/s. There are factors in play that won't make that happen, but that's more or less what it means.

Sure you're watching the event. But let's say you're at a sporting event, there's halftime and I'm very confident you'll be reaching for your phone as most people do these days.

As for needing to leave the office, this has more to do with the building you are in. 5G might fix that, but I'm not too sure it will. It could be a variety of things you are dealing with. It could simply be the building itself that's not allowing any of the signals to pass through for whatever building material reason. It could also be that you're already near the edge of the signal range, in which case going outside will yield full bars but stepping behind something will lower your signal strength. If the latter is the case, 5G might solve it simply because more transmitters are needed to cover the same area which means the closest signal is stronger. Unless you're unlucky and they place a transmitter far off in the distance.
 

BvizioN

macrumors 601
Mar 16, 2012
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I'm sure I cannot present an argument in favor (that hasn't been presented already somewhere) that'll convince you of it's value.

You said it yourself, you could care less if they remove it.

In that case, what does it matter to you if they change it to what EVERYONE else uses?
I just wanted to know what others find so beneficial on a port that nowadays seem to only be used for charging mainly, and that's all.
- - Post merged: - -

For me it would be good just for my MacBook/iPad/iPhone to have the same but not a huge deal as I never charge my phone more than once a day...it could go two days really
Precisely. I never connect my phone to Mac or iPad. Matter of fact, since iPhone X came out (now using 11 Pro) I may have used the lighting cable a couple of times.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors 603
Sep 12, 2017
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The people who bought it don't have to fully relevant to my opinion and the reality is that you are already indoctrinated by a notch screen.
Hmmm, whose opinion should be given more weight: 200 million actual customers or iJustin’s—who doesn’t even have the product he’s whining about, but just “knows” it’s terrible.

Yeah that’s a tough call 🙄

PS Have you figured out where all the sensors will go, if not the notch?
 
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iJustines

macrumors member
Dec 1, 2019
68
31
Hmmm, whose opinion should be given more weight: 200 million actual customers or iJustin’s—who doesn’t even have the product he’s whining about, but just “knows” it’s terrible. ❌❌❌❌

Yeah that’s a tough call 🙄❌❌❌❌

PS Have you figured out where all the sensors will go, if not the notch?❌❌❌❌❌
I don't think you understand or have any faith in something. You wouldn't need to bewilder the people about notch if you didn't ignore post #119
JUST STOP TELLING PEOPLE IT CANNOT BE FIXED. JUST STOP DUDE❗❗
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors 603
Sep 12, 2017
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I don't think you understand or have any faith in something. You wouldn't need to bewilder the people about notch if you didn't ignore post #119
JUST STOP TELLING PEOPLE IT CANNOT BE FIXED. JUST STOP DUDE❗❗
Post #119 is ridiculous because it’s not possible for the bezel to be that small in the real world—only in photoshop.

The iPad Pro has a 9mm bezel. It’s HUGE compared to iPhone. No one want a phone to have a 9mm bezel. A 9mm bezel all the way around is fine for an iPad Pro because it’s a very large device, but it’s not a solution for iPhone 🙄

Stop pretending you have a solution that Apple, spending $1.5 billion PER MONTH in R&D, doesn’t have. STOP TELLING PEOPLE IT CAN BE FIXED.

Note: I have zero photoshop skills so please forgive the crude mock-up of the right side 🤣

5C0B0F45-4C69-439B-B467-3AC8361BA942.jpeg
 
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Septembersrain

Contributor
Dec 14, 2013
3,485
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5G is over-hyped. It will take years still before there is widespread coverage with material speed increases. You literally need to be within 100 yards line of site of a tower to see the advertised speeds. Anything in the way of that (eg a tree, a wall, in your car, etc...) will dramatically slow it down

The T-Mobile rollout is especially a joke
Got the OnePlus 7T Pro 5G McLaren and it got worse dBm than my iPhone 7 Plus. It was embarrassingly bad. T-Mobile really needs this merger with Sprint. I was in a 5G area (Low band, I think?).

Returned the phone after it overheated and shut off on me.

I hope this issue is not going to hit the iPhones.
 

rmsanger

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2014
114
26
My guess is that a ton of people will buy this model with the promise of it being 5G ready or compatible... Then in the next 3-5 years the US carriers will change the standard so whatever tech is built in this model won't fully support 5G true capability. Many buyers of this model will be pissed!
 
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benjo765

macrumors member
Sep 17, 2008
97
32
Los Angeles



Last month, reputable Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said he expected four 5G-enabled iPhones to launch in the second half of 2020, including models with both sub-6GHz and mmWave support depending on the region.


Kuo said iPhone models with mmWave would be available in five markets, including the United States, Canada, Japan, Korea, and the United Kingdom, adding that Apple may disable 5G functionality in countries that do not offer 5G service or have a shallow 5G penetration rate to reduce production costs.

Kuo has now doubled down on his prediction. In a follow-up research note today, viewed by MacRumors, he said Apple is still on track to release both sub-6GHz and sub-6GHz-plus-mmWave iPhone models simultaneously in the second half of 2020, with shipments beginning in the late third quarter or early fourth quarter.

Last week, analyst Mehdi Hosseini had disagreed with Kuo's timeframe, claiming that sub-6GHz models would launch in September 2020 and mmWave models would follow in December 2020 or January 2021.

Kuo says development of 5G iPhones with both sub-6GHz and mmWave support is progressing as scheduled, however, and he has the more reputable track record as it relates to forecasting Apple's roadmap. So, as of now, it looks like the entire 5G iPhone lineup will be announced in September as usual.

Article Link: Kuo: All 5G iPhones on Track to Launch in Fall 2020, Including Both Sub-6GHz and mmWave Models
I really hope the 5.4” form factor brings a top of the line compact model back into play. The small handed among us will be very happy
 

MartyvH

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2017
162
89
It is an inferior version of 5G. The slowest 5G iPhone in the market use sub-6ghz.
It will be very good for several years until mm-wave rollouts grow beyond a few blocks in the CBD. You can be sure that that will take several years. The number of required towers needs to grow exponentially.
- - Post merged: - -

The notch, though likely smaller in the coming years, could easily be around for another 5-10 years. Get over it, or get a different phone 🤷‍♂️
Sticking with iPhone myself. 👍
 
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iJustines

macrumors member
Dec 1, 2019
68
31
Post #119 is ridiculous because it’s not possible for the bezel to be that small in the real world—only in photoshop.❌❌

The iPad Pro has a 9mm bezel. It’s HUGE compared to iPhone. No one want a phone to have a 9mm bezel. A 9mm bezel all the way around is fine for an iPad Pro because it’s a very large device, but it’s not a solution for iPhone 🙄 ❌❌

Stop pretending you have a solution that Apple, spending $1.5 billion PER MONTH in R&D, doesn’t have. STOP TELLING PEOPLE IT CAN BE FIXED.❌❌

Note: I have zero photoshop skills so please forgive the crude mock-up of the right side 🤣
From your perspective, nothing is possible and cannot be fixed.
 

PickUrPoison

macrumors 603
Sep 12, 2017
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From your perspective, nothing is possible and cannot be fixed.
My perspective is that Apple has to deal with reality. Engineering realities (today) require a certain amount of space for the sensors. No doubt Apple is spending a chunk of that $1.5 billion a month from their R&D budget on reducing the physical space these components require. If you review the patent filings you will see efforts in this regard.

I’m sure the notch will get smaller and eventually even disappear altogether. Nobody wants that to happen more than Apple. Jony Ive always envisioned an all-display “sheet of glass” as the ideal form factor.

But that’s not possible right now. So we get design compromises like bezels, the notch and the camera bump. Compromise is not a dirty word; there are always engineering compromises made for any phone. Battery life vs. physical body size vs. performance is only one of the tradeoffs that must be considered.

And with that, my interest in discussing this further is exhausted. Maybe Apple will eventually provide a design to your liking, but if not, there are many other alternatives on the market. Buy whatever suits your requirements best! The perfect phone for you is probably out there somewhere 🤷‍♂️
 
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Darth Tulhu

macrumors 6502
Apr 10, 2019
388
580
My perspective is that Apple has to deal with reality. Engineering realities (today) require a certain amount of space for the sensors. No doubt Apple is spending a chunk of that $1.5 billion a month from their R&D budget on reducing the physical space these components require. If you review the patent filings you will see efforts in this regard.

Im sure the notch will get smaller and eventually even disappear altogether. Nobody wants that to happen more than Apple. Ive always envisioned an all-display “sheet of glass” as the ideal form factor.

But that’s not possible right now, so we get design compromises like bezels and lthe notch and the camera bump. Compromise is not a dirty word; there are always engineering compromises made for any phone. Battery life vs. physical body size vs. performance is only one of the tradeoffs that must be considered.
To be fair, I think that all those things are weighed by Apple (naturally) against profits (ahem...keyboards...ahem).

They're not going to build the best device they could every year. They're going to milk the cow as long as it produces milk.

There are less intrusive 'notch" approaches out there already. The notch is a GIANT bezel for the camera and speaker.

That said, I understand how this is not a deal breaker for iPhone users, and that even we have to deal with the tradeoffs between devices.
 

compwiz1202

macrumors 6502a
May 20, 2010
643
147
I find myself completely unenthused about 5G... I don’t care about speed or latency, at this point, my biggest problem is coverage, particularly in buildings. Not limited capacity, but limited signal strength.
Exactly. Even if there is coverage, it's ridiculously slow inside. Improve freaking 4G LTE before going to a new tech.
- - Post merged: - -

Not sure which is more overrated; 5G phones or 8k TVs.
Definitely 8K. Heck even 4K. I'd much rather have a substantial internet speed boost than a barely noticeable image quality increase.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2003
4,857
2,941
Bandwidth is capacity. It's the amount available to be spread around to different connections. In a perfect world 10 connections over a gigabit connection could simultaneously do 100Mbit/s. There are factors in play that won't make that happen, but that's more or less what it means.

Sure you're watching the event. But let's say you're at a sporting event, there's halftime and I'm very confident you'll be reaching for your phone as most people do these days.

As for needing to leave the office, this has more to do with the building you are in. 5G might fix that, but I'm not too sure it will. It could be a variety of things you are dealing with. It could simply be the building itself that's not allowing any of the signals to pass through for whatever building material reason. It could also be that you're already near the edge of the signal range, in which case going outside will yield full bars but stepping behind something will lower your signal strength. If the latter is the case, 5G might solve it simply because more transmitters are needed to cover the same area which means the closest signal is stronger. Unless you're unlucky and they place a transmitter far off in the distance.
This is totally irrelevant to the conversation and the terminology used probably varies regionally but, technically, bandwidth is the amount of spectrum consumed-- the width of the band from the lowest information carrying frequency to the highest. Data capacity (or rate), in the Shannon's Law sense, is a function of bandwidth, received signal strength, and background noise. This data capacity is what determines one aspect of "speed"-- how many bits per second you can shove through the radio.

As a shorthand, many people use "bandwidth" when they mean data rate or "speed". Data rate is at least proportional to bandwidth, so that's probably fine. Speed can mean data rate or latency depending on the need.

There is also the device or connection capacity-- how many devices can be handled by one tower. There is a lot more to that number than just data capacity. At the most basic level there's a choice of techniques for multiple access: time division, frequency division, code division and now with MIMO spatial division multiple access. Device capacity isn't completely independent of data capacity, but it's not a given that more of one leads to more or less of the other. There are a number of slices made available that may or may not compete for data capacity and inefficiencies in managing the transitions between slices with the need to add guard bands, time of flight delays, noise floors increasing, etc.

In a perfect world, having 10 devices connected over a Gbps connection would mean an aggregate throughput of 10Gbps. The sort of linear relationship you're describing holds more true for time division and frequency division multiplexing.

There are people here who know far more than me about 5G, but from what I can tell there are technologies to improve data rate, reduce latency, and increase device capacity (to a million devices per square kilometer for IoT applications). Some of the massive MIMO stuff might improve penetration into structures, but it certainly isn't highlighted in any of the bullet points I've seen.


All of this is to reenforce my initial point: I'm limited by neither data capacity nor device capacity, I'm most often limited by connection quality. You and I apparently use our devices differently-- the stadium case doesn't improve my user experience, the office case would. I don't need 5G features, I need better infrastructure buildout. I suspect 5G means most of the infrastructure spending is going to be on upgrading existing towers, which is fine. It just means that until I learn differently, 5G isn't motivating me to upgrade my phone...
 
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iJustines

macrumors member
Dec 1, 2019
68
31
My perspective is that Apple has to deal with reality. Engineering realities (today) require a certain amount of space for the sensors. No doubt Apple is spending a chunk of that $1.5 billion a month from their R&D budget on reducing the physical space these components require. If you review the patent filings you will see efforts in this regard.❌❌❌❌

I’m sure the notch will get smaller and eventually even disappear altogether. Nobody wants that to happen more than Apple. Jony Ive always envisioned an all-display “sheet of glass” as the ideal form factor.❌❌❌❌

But that’s not possible right now. So we get design compromises like bezels, the notch and the camera bump. Compromise is not a dirty word; there are always engineering compromises made for any phone. Battery life vs. physical body size vs. performance is only one of the tradeoffs that must be considered.❌❌❌❌

And with that, my interest in discussing this further is exhausted. Maybe Apple will eventually provide a design to your liking, but if not, there are many other alternatives on the market. Buy whatever suits your requirements best! The perfect phone for you is probably out there somewhere 🤷‍♂️❌❌❌❌
For you, nothing seems possible. Unlike another brand of smartphones, if the customers wants the latest model of Apple smartphones, they are forced to buy a notch screen iPhone without extra option. You are not a PR person OR an ambassador because your explanation is full of vague and unworthy.