Kyoto is Born

swanny

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 12, 2004
135
0
Alberta
February 16, 2005

Happy Birthday Kyoto

Twas a long "pregancy" geez

a bouncing baby "protocal"
 

swanny

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 12, 2004
135
0
Alberta
Opps

edesignuk said:
Who??? :confused:

edit: OK, this I assume. Please don't post things in Current Events without at least a link to a story/article. We aren't mind readers.

Sorry there chief....
I was on a "call" on my shoe phone
and passed out from the smell....

opps
 

combatcolin

macrumors 68020
Oct 24, 2004
2,284
0
Northants, UK
All we have to do now is to convince the Toxic Texan...may take a while.

Oh well, Hilary will be in the white house in a few years and she'll listen.
 

swanny

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 12, 2004
135
0
Alberta
Pain

miloblithe said:
And an existing institution is more impressive than an idea. Still, we'll see where this goes in time.
No pain....
No gain....
or so it is said...

I suspect though at times it is necessary to endure and institute "short term" pain.... For "long term" .... gain....

An unfortuneate reality of national political structures and realities whose mandates are generally only short term and bottom line...

and perhaps the "blessings" afforded by the United Nations
which has the wisdom, where with all and aspirations to address the long term and big picture realities and issues...
 

Lacero

macrumors 604
Jan 20, 2005
6,639
2
We give ourselves too much credit for our pollution and waste. Mother earth has a way of cleansing herself. Our existence on earth is but a short breath in her lifetime.
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,077
1
London, England
Kmacripple said:
Kyoto is not worth anything. Its goal is to reduce carbon emissions by 5.2%. Like that will do anything. Its importance has been vastly overstated by the press.
Hey, it's better than nothing.
 

swanny

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 12, 2004
135
0
Alberta
Time

Lacero said:
We give ourselves too much credit for our pollution and waste. Mother earth has a way of cleansing herself. Our existence on earth is but a short breath in her lifetime.
Well true given time Mom will clean up your room eventually
after the nuclear wastes have subsided which is well
many years....
Now mom why do I have to clean up my own mess
Thats what mothers are for No?

I mean I break it you fix it ..... isn't that the deal?
 

mouchoir

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2004
654
0
London, UK
Lacero said:
We give ourselves too much credit for our pollution and waste. Mother earth has a way of cleansing herself. Our existence on earth is but a short breath in her lifetime.
Yeah, maybe by bringing on another ice age and making us extinct.

I don't think I want it to get that bad.
 

mischief

macrumors 68030
Aug 1, 2001
2,920
0
Santa Cruz Ca
Much as I appreciate the sentiment...

Kyoto is a good start from a purely sentimental standpoint but there still needs to be a shift towards carbon sinking from the current focus in too-little-too-late emissions regs.
 

relimw

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2004
611
0
SC
swanny said:
and perhaps the "blessings" afforded by the United Nations
which has the wisdom, where with all and aspirations to address the long term and big picture realities and issues...
Well, we'll see. The basis for the global warming movement only seems to be the last 250 years, which is just a drop in the time bucket. If you're going to make statements about global warming, at least go back one full ice age revolution. Then I'd be willing to talk about a .25 degree change in temperature.

Obviously the UN shouldn't try anything short term, they always botch it. Can we say Oil-For-Money, er Food anyone?

Btw, as a side note, I saw this article the other day and thought it would be of some interest.
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
13,951
3
Gone but not forgotten.
Kmacripple said:
Kyoto is not worth anything. Its goal is to reduce carbon emissions by 5.2%. Like that will do anything. Its importance has been vastly overstated by the press.
Hey! Kyoto is one of the most beautiful cities in Japan. Don't say that it's not worth anything.

In the case of the Kyoto Accord, anything downward will help. It won't make things better, but it will make things less worse.

Now, if this country was serious about public transportation, we'd have a better chance.
 

relimw

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2004
611
0
SC
bousozoku said:
Hey! Kyoto is one of the most beautiful cities in Japan. Don't say that it's not worth anything.

In the case of the Kyoto Accord, anything downward will help. It won't make things better, but it will make things less worse.

Now, if this country was serious about public transportation, we'd have a better chance.
And to think, Orlando's newly re-reproposed light rail system won't be coming all the way out to you, will it? ;)
Of course, anything would be better than I-4 during rush hour >shivers<
 

Thanatoast

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2002
1,005
134
Denver
The problem with Bush's alternative to Kyoto is that it consists of doing nothing. Apparently keeping air breathable and the planet habitable is too much of a burden for US companies. I have yet to hear him produce an alternative plan that actually *reduces* pollution.
 

bousozoku

Moderator emeritus
Jun 25, 2002
13,951
3
Gone but not forgotten.
relimw said:
And to think, Orlando's newly re-reproposed light rail system won't be coming all the way out to you, will it? ;)
Of course, anything would be better than I-4 during rush hour >shivers<
There won't be an Orlando area light rail system until all of these people stop dragging their feet. None of them have probably spent more than 5 minutes on anything that could remotely be called public transportation and yet, they're all experts.

Where I live, we don't even have bus service. Go a mile in any direction and there is bus service. However, we now have a 4 lane road with bike lanes. I'd invite local people to live in Philly or Tokyo and see how they can get around without a car, every day. :)
 

Xtremehkr

macrumors 68000
Jul 4, 2004
1,897
0
Lacero said:
We give ourselves too much credit for our pollution and waste. Mother earth has a way of cleansing herself. Our existence on earth is but a short breath in her lifetime.
It's entertaining when people make broad claims about what the planet can do while at the same time claiming that there is no way to tell that what we are doing is harmful.

Massive amounts of greenhouse gasses have always been apart of the enviroment haven't they? Oh no? that might changes things?

Oh nevermind, the earth will correct the imbalance. Is that what we want to happen though? Is the correction going to be something that people are going to like?
 

pseudobrit

macrumors 68040
Jul 23, 2002
3,418
4
Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
Lacero said:
We give ourselves too much credit for our pollution and waste. Mother earth has a way of cleansing herself. Our existence on earth is but a short breath in her lifetime.
This is suicidal reasoning, you know?

When the balance of nature is thrown off, nature finds a way to kill the offender.

We're beyond other life in that we have ways of tricking nature and doing more damage on a vast scale than any other creature. If the cost of this wanton recklessness is the end of most life forms, including our own, should we just shrug it off?

Are you seriously willing to allow the human race to kill itself?
 

Sayhey

macrumors 68000
May 22, 2003
1,690
2
San Francisco
pseudobrit said:
This is suicidal reasoning, you know?

When the balance of nature is thrown off, nature finds a way to kill the offender.

We're beyond other life in that we have ways of tricking nature and doing more damage on a vast scale than any other creature. If the cost of this wanton recklessness is the end of most life forms, including our own, should we just shrug it off?

Are you seriously willing to allow the human race to kill itself?
We are just a blip in time. It's all ok, because looking at the vast amounts of time in the Earth's climate record there must have been other times like these. We all just need to calm down and let Mother Nature and her Seven Sisters take care of it all. Heaven knows we wouldn't want to interfere in their grand scheme.

Oh, for those who don't know the Seven Sisters are also known as Exxon, BP, Chevron, ARCO ... :eek:
 

swanny

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 12, 2004
135
0
Alberta
Rethinking Cities

RETHINKING CITIES

Well all hail the Kyoto Protocol, on this its day of birth.
It'd be your February 16, 2005 and with much foot dragging it seems
the Protocol is now Law and in effect.

It is interesting that its basis is on a somewhat economic model, which is understandable in a capitalistic society and world. Credits to pollute are the order of the day and bought and sold as simply another commodity on the global markets perhaps.

Al-righty then but wait.... We have missed the boat somehow I think.
I think Global warming and CO2 emissions are not the problem but a symptom.
The real problem would seem to stem from the urban jungles and cities.
Cities which by design are unsustainable and serve not people but .... whatever.

Hmmmm really??? What is a city then??? Who does it serve and how many?
Can a city be to big? Can a city be self sufficient? Can a city please all of the people all of the time? Is the city a natural or organic entity or is it a machine or
processor of some sort? What do we really know about cities anyway?
They don't seem to have been around all that terribly long and is there perhaps need to investigate what makes a good and sustainable urban area and what do we base this judgment or reasoning on? Is city designing and building a science or an art? What is the history of the city? What makes a good, sustainable healthy and green city?

A lot of questions true but the questions have to be asked I suppose if we are to do more than just treat the symptom rather than address the real problem.
 

combatcolin

macrumors 68020
Oct 24, 2004
2,284
0
Northants, UK
MORE FROM THE TOXIC TEXAN

Right, Bush won't sign up to Kyoto because of "Bad Science"

With me?

Right.

But he'll invade Iraq because of "Bad Intelligence"

Get where im going? :mad:

Would say Hypocrite but i think i've spelled it wrong.
(Still need a spell checker on this forum!!)
 

mischief

macrumors 68030
Aug 1, 2001
2,920
0
Santa Cruz Ca
pseudobrit said:
Are you seriously willing to allow the human race to kill itself?
I'm of two minds on this one:

On the one hand I'd love to see Humanity get a clue and own up to being the stewards of this planet.

On the other I can only see this happening through climactic catastrophe resulting in a 50% or greater human die-off. We're smart on a small scale but goddamn thick headed about the big stuff until we have dead family members as a result.