Lance Armstrong Rant

Discussion in 'Community' started by MongoTheGeek, Aug 24, 2005.

  1. MongoTheGeek macrumors 68040


    Sep 13, 2003
    Its not so much where you are as when you are.
    Okay this is pissing me off but good. I haven't been reading posting recently RL has just been too much, but when I read about Armstrong's supposed doping I had to say a few things.

    Where I am coming from. I am about the same age and had the same type of cancer. I didn't have the brain tumor but had larger metastasis than Lance did. I know a bit about cancer, treatment and drugs. That was for a while the only information stuck in my head. I still have large holes in my knowledge of other things.

    EPO is a drug used primarily to treat cancer patients. They run ads for it. It goes by the trade name ProCrit. Think old people not being able to get around with no energy.

    EPO is a naturally occurring substance in the body. Its production is triggered by low blood counts.

    Chemotherapy plays hell with all sorts of endocrine system.

    The most popular drug for testicular cancer (Cis-platin (just replaced in the last year by Carbo-platin) both platinum derivatives, in addition to causing nerve damage play hell on the kidneys (which by the way is where EPO is made)

    Since EPO is naturally occurring they can only compare to baseline normals. When they were doing the test they were actually *CALIBRATING THE SYSTEM*

    In summary.
    1) The sample is 7 years old and may have been contaminated (intentionally or not)
    2) The test is only in beta right now
    3) Even if the test was a true positive there are lots of non doping explanations.
    4) Even if it was doping there are legitimate medical reasons (Which are allowed by sanctioning bodies, especially if there is no other treatment (which there is none for EPO(transfusions actually lower EPO levels))

    The hell with the researchers who insinuated this. (Never actually said it out right)
    The hell with the reporters who won't let this drop. Like something that might have happened 7 years ago matters. Its not like they will put a star next to the 7 in the record books.
  2. clayj macrumors 604


    Jan 14, 2005
    visiting from downstream
    Those testing agencies do.

    And I think the head of the Tour de France should be ashamed for dragging this out NOW, when the man has retired. It smacks of a total smear job, to make allegations against a guy who has RETIRED. What's to be gained from this?
  3. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Los Angeles
    MongoTheGeek is right about ProCrit. Plenty of patients who are anemic after chemotherapy (or anemic for other reasons) are given ProCrit to boost their red count back to less life-threatening levels. In other words, it's a life saving drug for those who need it. But I haven't seen Lance Armstrong bringing up his cancer treatments in response to the L'Equipe story. Has he?

    The quotes I did read from Lance, referring to L'Equipe:

    "Obviously, this is great business for them. Unfortunately, I'm caught in the cross-hairs. I think they've been planning it for a while. I think they much would have preferred to have done this at start of the Tour, or the middle, but for some reason, it was delayed. At the end of day, I think that's what it's all about... selling newspapers. And it sells."
  4. sambo. macrumors regular


    Jun 2, 2004
    outback, far from the surf
    lance is a legend.....

    :mad: i'm a bit peeved here too :mad: .
    anybody who has taken much more than a passing interest in Lance's career KNEW this was the case. He has DENIED, consistently and over a loooong period of time, taking performance enhancing drugs, and he hasn't.
    he HAS, however, been treated for cancer (successfully too i hope). why this is being dredged up now is beyond belief and nothing more than a pathetic attempt at discrediting a sporting icon.
    Lance Armstrong is the greatest cyclist in history.
    until the frogs can breed themselves a winner for their own national sporting event, could they lay off being so rude about other nations sports heros.

    as for keeping the piss from events SEVEN YEARS AGO?? :confused: , it explains some of the wine i paid top-dollar for in Paris a few years ago. :eek:
  5. aricher macrumors 68020


    Feb 20, 2004
    I'm a big fan of Armstrong - which is why seeing him riding bikes with George W. Bush in Texas this week truly disturbed me. Almost as much as finding out the president has a $3,000 bike. :eek:
    Armstrong and Bush's Tour De Crawford

    Top 11 awkward moments during Dubya's bicycle ride with Lance Armstrong.

    11. Armstrong arrived with his buddy John Kerry.

    10. Everyone had to wait while the President finished shaving his legs.

    9. Armstrong's frequent coasting prompted demand from Dubya to switch bikes.

    8. Bush singing "All I Want to Do Is Have Some Fun," interrupted by Armstrong humming, "You're My Favorite Mistake."

    7. Crawford neighbor Larry Mattlage's penchant for firing his shotgun gave Lance a Greg LeMond moment.

    6. The first time Dubya fell, Lance didn't know about the "when the President falls, everybody falls" protocol and kept on riding.

    5. Bush's assurance to Armstrong that he would put the "war on cancer" on the list right after Iran and Syria.

    4. Skipped Presidential Daily Briefing from CIA to take another loop.

    3. When the going got tough, Dubya refused to lead, preferring to draft.

    2. Armstrong passed his drug test.

    1. Lance stopped to talk to Cindy Sheehan for an hour and finished the ride with a four minute lead.
  6. outlaw6 macrumors newbie

    Mar 29, 2004

    An American is a winner, let's bash. The French are the biggest losers it the history of mankind. Can we try to discredit the most prolific winner in the history of the "Tour". We need to try to build up our prestige and make us seem like a world power again. Never happen.
  7. zami macrumors regular

    Dec 19, 2003
    South London

    Unlike the US we are not obsessed with power, oil and invading places.

    Sure we were defeated by the Fascists 65 years ago but then so were the Iraqis and Palestinians.

    As for cycling the biggest anti-drug militant was Charly Mottet, French. FFS Greg Lemond couldn't even cycle in a straight line and was famous in the peleton for it. LA is not worth talking about, what has he won in the other 50 weeks of the last few years?

    Coppi, Merckx, Anquetil they were great cyclists. Even Stephen Roche won the Giro, the Tour and the world championship in a single year. Armstrong is not and never has been at that level.
  8. AmigoMac macrumors 68020


    Aug 5, 2003
    How fast can a thread go to politics! :)

    Lance is a hero for the sport world.
  9. OnceUGoMac macrumors 6502a


    Mar 3, 2004
    You do realize that a good bike costs around $1500, right? So what if W. paid for the best bike he could get. Would you be complaining if Kerry had been riding around on a Heinz-funded $3000 bike?
  10. OnceUGoMac macrumors 6502a


    Mar 3, 2004
    So France didn't invade Europe under Napoleon, drag the U.S. into Vietnam, and invade Mexico?
  11. Peterkro macrumors 68020


    Aug 17, 2004
    Communard de Londres
    Its a bit wierd how people are dividing this up as US v France.I have no idea if Armstrong used EPO as a performance enhancer.Given the number of cyclists who have its not really relevant.The fact of the matter is that Armstrong is not well liked by a lot of people in the cycling world,respected yes liked no.The US/France thing is disproved by the genuine affection that Greg LeMond is held in by most in France.
  12. stubeeef macrumors 68030


    Aug 10, 2004
    some have to belittle others so that they can seem big.
  13. OnceUGoMac macrumors 6502a


    Mar 3, 2004
    Why did you change your avatar? I loved the old one. :D
  14. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816


    Dec 16, 2004
    Birmingham, AL
    Now, now, let's remember our history. The French, as it turned out, have actually won two wars.

    They were both civil. ;)
  15. AmigoMac macrumors 68020


    Aug 5, 2003
    That's the old one :p
  16. JW8725 macrumors 6502a

    May 8, 2005
    I have admiration for Lance! He's awesome! People (especially the French) are just jealous of his feat thats all. There is no one on earth like him. Vote Lance for your Presidency I say!
  17. alex_ant macrumors 68020


    Feb 5, 2002
    All up in your bidness
    Just FYI, not to try to attack him for it, but John Kerry owns a $6,000 Serotta in addition to several other racing bikes and is an avid cyclist.
  18. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040


    Apr 21, 2003
    washington dc
    MongotheGeek - excellent post! there haven't been enough people pointing out the facts that you've listed. i've heard it discussed on a few cycling boards, but thats about it.

    this is also the same magazine that has tried repeatadly in the past to pin accusations on armstrong, they're hardly an unbiased source.

    and as i understand it, they have yet to show original documents, only scanned copies. :rolleyes:
  19. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040


    Apr 21, 2003
    washington dc
    :confused: you should be happy that someone you're a fan of is a nice enough guy to hang out with people that he doesn't neccessarily agree with- lance has said in the past that he doesn't agree with some of the president's policies- like the war.

    :rolleyes: and about the $3k bike... so what? my racing rig has a higher resale value than my car at the moment, if he wants to ride a $3,000 bike, more power to him, he can afford it.
  20. AmigoMac macrumors 68020


    Aug 5, 2003
    Yeah, let the man ride 3000 bucks if he can afford it.
    I would ride $1000, sell my iBook , get a PB and accessories. ;)
  21. Roger1 macrumors 65816


    Jun 3, 2002

    No. If it was Heinz-funded, then it would be their own money. If Bush is riding around on a $3000 bike paid for by my taxes then yes, I'm going to complain.
  22. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040


    Apr 21, 2003
    washington dc

    can we get back to the topic at hand??
  23. lopresmb macrumors 6502

    Apr 29, 2005
    even if lance did do something, which there probably is not conclusive way to prove at this point, it ticks me off that they would go public with this information before they have anythign conclusive or before they really have something to report.

    stinks for armstrong, because he has not way to defend himself in this situation.
  24. Sox macrumors regular

    Feb 9, 2005
    The whole situation sickens me. Is our society such that we must always kill our heroes to feel better about ourselves? Has Jealousy finally won out over Inspiration?

    Lance Armstrong is the best to ever clip into the pedals. Period. In response to zami's post, riders like Coppi and Merckx certainly won more races and had more victories than Lance in events other than the Tour. But none of them ever won the Tour seven times, let alone in a row. You sound as if you believe Lance Armstrong incapable of winning any event other than the Tour, as if he'd be "outclassed" unless he's in the Alps. That's complete bollocks. You don't think he could win other events if he wanted to?

    After beating cancer, Lance focused his training and career trajectory around one thing, and one thing only - winning the Tour de France. Not the Giro d'Italia, not the Olympic time trial, not the Tour de Flanders. The Tour de France. Much like Tiger Woods grades himself on his major victories, rather than the Buick Open. To believe that Lance Armstrong could not win, and win consistently, in events other than the Tour is patently absurd. The line to bet against this guy isn't exactly wrapping around the corner.

    For all the medical reasons other posters have mentioned, it's more than likely that these recent doping allegations are false, just like all that Lance has faced before. Jealousy over Inspiration. I remember the end of a Nike commercial he did a few years ago, which summed up all of this perfectly:

    "People are always asking me what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on my bike, busting my ass, six hours a day.

    "What are you on?"

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