Latest palestinian infighting; what's it all about then?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogbone, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. dogbone macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #1
    It's been brewing for a while and now Abbas' and Haniya's chaps are targetting each other and their leaders.

    Notwithstanding that it's all Israel's fault as the default position for the Palestinians who cause all this chaos, is that they are not responsible for their actions, I am genuinely wondering if the fighting is about anything other than the right to wage continuous war with Israel.

    Abbas wants peace and Hamas are clear in their ultimate aim.

    Is there some other fundamental difference they are fighting over?

    link1
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  2. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #2
    I doubt if you can have any regional peace, when the desert is covered in refugee camps. Regardless of what first put them there, a child born in the first camps would be over 50 years old today. That is one hell of a way to spend your life. While much of the world lives in relative prosperity, most of those poor people have never known anything but the camp. The one hope they carry, is someday they will win their homeland back.

    We do not see many documentaries about life there. It must be terrible. These people seem to be the ones that escape our attention. When the world accepts the injustice done to these people, and makes amends, then peace may have a chance.
     
  3. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #3
    @SMM

    I refer you to my second sentence, for a quick re read.

    And to the last sentence, with special emphasis on "other"
     
  4. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    You don't really do "empathy", do you?
     
  5. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #5
    Aw gee, that's not very nice. I have a lot of empathy for posters like you who'd really like to have an answer to my question, intead of treating it rhetorically.
     
  6. .Andy macrumors 68030

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    #6
    The last thing you want is answers to your question.
     
  7. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #7
    Why do all of your threads here seem to be about Palestine?
     
  8. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #8
    Thanks for that useful contribution.

    Er, I just did a quick count of the front page on the Political Board and this thread appears to be the only one out of the 50 I scanned that is about the 'Palestinians'. So maybe this is an indication of the difficulty you are having in coming up with a plausible answer to my original question. Or maybe not.

    Edit: Whoops misread that my threads? Er could the answer be that they are the only ones you look at, perhaps?
     
  9. .Andy macrumors 68030

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    #9
    I think, perhaps, you might have a nauseating bone with Palestine/Muslims/Islam.
     
  10. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    Frankly, their ability to vent their frustration with their situation at the Israelis has been severely curtailed, so they end up turning against each other.
     
  11. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    I think Hamas is Islamic Jihad and Fatah is secular. They both want to be the face of the palestinians.
     
  12. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Both are better at generating hostilities than building governments or infrastructure.
     
  13. BoyBach macrumors 68040

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    #13
    Is it not a 'classic' struggle for power within a failing 'State'?
     
  14. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #14
    Not sure I am tracking with you here. I did not quote you. I thought I was just adding to the subject, by expressing what I see as the 'brick wall' to peace in the region. The was a period of time when I was trying to keep current with the events there. Eventually I concluded that all groups, Israelies, Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc, were the perpetrators of autraucities, and the victims of them. And, as I posted earlier, until the refugee problem is solved, this fighting will continue.
     
  15. Queso macrumors G4

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    #15
    My take? The mistakes have come from two locations. Washington by arming the Fatah leadership and thereby giving the impression that Abbas is a tool of the West, and; Cairo for not securing the Gaza/Egyptian border and thereby allowing Hamas to smuggle in as many weapons as they like. Notice how once again people are selling these groups weapons. Same story all over the world :rolleyes:

    The big question is what to do now. I've always advocated Israel allowing troops from other Arab powers such as Egypt to police the Palestinian territories and stop these political militias from having official power. Maybe what they need is a benevolent dictator (like Gaddafi appears to have become), someone who won't suffer dissent but has the best interests of the people at heart. What is certainly not needed is Israel sending in the troops to try and sort it out, but I guess that's the most likely outcome.
     
  16. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    I found that comment funny. They ARE living in their homeland. Their homeland is where they were born and are currently living. They have a flag, a government, etc.

    What are they waiting for? Maybe they just need an Olympic team or something so that they feel like they are a real country.
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    Oh really? I suppose that if someone stole your land and let you live on a reservation under armed guard and constant humiliation at checkpoints, imprisoned members of your family and rocketed your streets, you'd be happy, would you? You are totally lacking in empathy. You will never find a solution while you are standing waist-deep in denial.
     
  18. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    You've got to have priorities y'know. :rolleyes:

    I wonder when the media will call this conflict a civil war?
     
  19. dogbone thread starter macrumors 68020

    dogbone

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    #19
    Well, that's another explanation. So is this a battle then for secularism over fundamentalism then? If it is that rather than the issue of peace with Israel, then surely this puts a different flavour on the Palestinian struggle. Do Fatah represent the true will of the people that has been supressed, by the overly zealous Hamas.
     
  20. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #20
    Fatah had been more or less the main Palestinian party for years and years but over time developed a reputation for extensive corruption and incompetent administration while in control of the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians seemed to have tired of that. Hamas won the last elections fairly easily, unseating Fatah from power.

    Unfortunately for the Palestinians, they seem to have traded the corruption of Fatah for Hamas' agenda of war instead of peace
     
  21. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Stole it? So, are the Palestineans Ottomans, Romans, Canaanites or what? Must have owned it sometime between the dinosaurs and those empires (I'm sure I left some out too.)

    The armed guards are at the borders between them and Israel. If they are living under armed guard in the center of their own country, seems like an internal problem to me.

    Who's rocketing whom did you say? Are you saying that Israelis just wake up in the morning and shell Palestine unprovoked? Who's in denial? The only people I empathize with in this situation is the Israelis and their patience with Palestineans.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #22
    Well yes that would be true, except the troops doing the guarding are Israeli.
     
  23. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Every armed troop within the West Bank and Gaza (not at the borders) is Israeli. News to me. Must be hard to find good men from the native population then. Recurring theme in that region though.

    Should make it easier to police then. Just target any Arab men with guns since they couldn't possible be police or security since that's all done by Israelis.:rolleyes:
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #24
    Well obviously not, but the ones controlling the Palestinians movement around their country with checkpoints are.
     
  25. Queso macrumors G4

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    #25
    So are you basically saying that colonialism and ethnic cleansing are okay in the modern world then? What happened in Palestine is akin to the South African homelands under Apartheid. It wasn't acceptable to the world down in Bophutaswana or Transkei, so why is it deemed acceptable in Palestine? Are you saying the South African National Party did the right thing all those years?

    Did you empathise with the 9/11 victims? They were just minding their own business when suddenly a plane came through the window. For most of the people in Palestine it's the same when the rockets come flying in. They're just trying and go about their daily lives. Surely you can empathise with them, trapped as they are between a militia on one side and the Israeli Army on the other.
     

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