Lawsuit Against Apple's Faulty Butterfly Keyboards Moves Forward


alphaod

macrumors Core
Feb 9, 2008
22,141
1,180
NYC
Just be prepared for all the spam while these lawyers get the name and address for every MacBook Pro owner from Apple so they can send you "letters."
 

Mainsail

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2010
1,243
1,051
"Apple has attempted to revise the butterfly keyboard several times to make it more durable, but ultimately, it's still prone to failure."

Hey MacRumors, rather than being an echo chamber, be responsible journalists and provide evidence to support your claim that the 2019 BF KB is still prone to failure. Other tech sites have acknowledged that it is much improved. So, if you are going to say it, then please back it up so we can benefit as consumers. Otherwise, print a retraction. This is just lazy reporting.
 
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LV426

macrumors 6502a
Jan 22, 2013
863
288
There was a time when you could sell on a MacBook Pro for a good price, making it less painful to get a new model. Now that my 3 year old laptop has had two keyboard replacements, has a flickering TouchBar on the blink, and one key the worse for wear due to my own desperate attempts to clear out the dust, I doubt I'd get much for it.
 

Tim182

macrumors newbie
Oct 31, 2018
11
6
Never had an issue with the key board, and love mine. Feels completely blown out of proportion.

I bet it is mostly just those snotty cookie monsters who like to crumble and sneeze over their keyboards. And unfortunately, in those circumstances, the keyboard appears more likely to "fail". It is still a mystery to me what such a keyboard failure actually looks like as all I ever hear from those monsters is "cookie cookie crumble sneeze fail!". If the keyboard is full of sticky crumbles, then of course it will be harder to press down on a key, but I wouldn't call this a failure.

And on top of it all, those cookie monsters appear to have now spoiled my beloved and silent butterfly keyboard for future generations who will be keeping their neighbours awake with loud keystrokes, crumbling cookies and loud sneezes.

Thanks for nothing, you social media types, millennials, fake news bodies, influencers and cookie monsters. Thanks for nothing.
 

x-evil-x

macrumors 601
Jul 13, 2008
4,624
2,375
Waste of everyone's time. Nothing meaningful comes out of class action suits.

The keyboard was redesigned. Let's move on.
The right thing to do is Apple replaces all faulty keyboard owners with an option for the 16” MacBook Pro. Why wouldn’t Apple do this if the customer wanted the updated keyboard instead of replacing it with the same one?
maybe Apple is waiting to do this when they have the 14” with the normal keyboard. Can’t be replacing 13” owners with 16” machines.
 

skippermonkey

macrumors 6502
Jun 23, 2003
260
661
Bath, UK
"Benjamin Johns, lawyer for the plaintiffs, told Reuters that he's pleased with the decision and looks forward to earning incredible amounts of money."

Fixed.
 

zoom25

macrumors member
Jul 30, 2018
30
13
I hope this ends up working out for MacBook users with faulty keyboards. I've been trouble free with the butterfly on my 2018 15", however, I very well know the pain and frustration associated with things like this particularly when out of warranty. I've had 2 15" laptops plagued with Nvidia GPU (Mid 2012) crash issues that made an otherwise perfect laptop just unusable and super frustrating. Took it to the Genius Bar several times and they couldn't diagnose it at the time.
 

4sallypat

macrumors 6502
Sep 16, 2016
285
232
So Calif
Who ever has 2016-2019 15” MacBook pro models, apple should just give us an option to swap our macbooks with 16 inch macbooks with scissor mechanism keyboards
I have a 2015 Macbook 12" Retina with the first gen butterfly keyboard - do you think I can get a 16" MBP ????
 

randyhudson

macrumors 6502
Oct 28, 2007
268
330
East Coast
Am I the minority who doesn’t mind the butterfly keyboard? I haven’t had any problems with it. I do, however, like Apple’s magic keyboard more because of its key travel and satisfying click... I’m looking forward to when Apple introduces the scissor keyboard on the smaller MacBook Pro.
Until recently I worked at a company where we have over 100,000 MacBook Pros. I sat next to 50 other people with MacBooks (replaced every 3-4 years). They were used daily. About 40% of my coworkers have experienced keyboard problems with the newer MacBooks. Most of the time people just pound on the bad key or blow on it until the problem is resolved.
 
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Donnation

macrumors 65816
Nov 2, 2014
1,001
978
Except that almost everyone who has one loves them and has had no problems with them. I think it would make a better story on social influencing, that actually defective design.

I'd love just one of these "OMG there are so bad" types to come up with any statistics whatsoever. Wouldn't the after market warranty providers have a number? Certainly if they are repairing them, they must no how many
Speak for yourself. I hate the butterfly keyboard and its the single reason I hung onto my 2015 MacBook Pro for as long as I did. Its the most uncomfortable typing experience I've ever had on a keyboard. And if the majority of people who had them, love them and have no problems with them, then why does Apple have a free replacement program and why did they move away from it and go back to scissor?
 

CHA05 R31GN5

Suspended
Oct 31, 2019
165
252
United States
Apple publicly stated that they are not abandoning the butterfly design. They will continue to refine it to address the source of the problems. Wasn't it debris getting under the keys that was the source of the problems in nearly every case? It's not like the mechanism itself was failing, but the slim design could not handle "natural dirt and dust" well. They still believe that the butterfly design is superior, but just doesn't stand up to real-world usage.

I think they have a good chance of winning since they put a full repair program in place, continued to refine the design, and brought back the scissor design in the meantime. They did not ignore the problem.
It's abandoned in terms of revisions to the engineering/manufacturing/design implementations. It's not abandoned in terms of continued manufacturing of the currently flawed design which is not an appropriate repair. If Apple actually finds a solution to the problem, then I'll gladly give them some praise. But, they don't deserve any right now.
In reference to the current "solution"; it only applies to the '18-19 MBP with an added silicone material placed between the switches and key caps. The '15 MB and '16-17 MBP didn't receive this addition. Thus far, the butterfly keyboard can become inoperative from foreign bodies, the switch mechanism material failure (this may have been improved), and the metal dome (which may have been improved).
 

Baymowe335

macrumors 603
Oct 6, 2017
5,480
9,678
You have utterly no idea what you are talking about.
Yeah, I do.
- - Post merged: - -

Everything will probably come out of this. (we hope)
The keyboard was redesigned but that doesn't mean anything to existing users. I didn't have the issue for a long time but eventually got it too. Sure Apple replaced it for free but that is not changing the fact that:

a) resale value of my computer is terrible
b) I can't hold the computer for long time as eventually I will be stucked with ****** keyboard

So, Apple messed up badly with this one and its only fair that this gets some resolution. Replacing faulty keyboard with another one that will fail eventually is not a proper solution. You just simply can't expect people to be happy with flawed design from the start.
There are times to defend Apple and there are times that Apple has to make it right. This is the time to make it right. The repair program is a joke as they still keep giving you the ****** design. So yeah, this is not a waste of time. If Apple stepped up and corrected the issue properly then this lawsuit wouldn't be needed but Apple thought repair program is enough. IT IS NOT!
You sound like a person that signed the online petition.

It's going nowhere. My guess is you'll get a $25 gift card to Apple, if you're extremely lucky.
- - Post merged: - -

I remember getting a refund from Apple iBooks after their anticompetitive pricing policy fell foul of a class action lawsuit.
Did you get a whole $6?
 
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robjulo

macrumors 65816
Jul 16, 2010
1,271
2,055
You seem to fancy yourself as an expert on almost every subject. Weighing in as quick as possible when anything negative is said about Apple, be it about design, engineering, law, corporate relations, marketing etc etc, with every opinion defending Apple.

I stand by my comment.

Yeah, I do.
- - Post merged: - -


You sound like a person that signed the online petition.

It's going nowhere. My guess is you'll get a $25 gift card to Apple, if you're extremely lucky.
 

CHA05 R31GN5

Suspended
Oct 31, 2019
165
252
United States
Who ever has 2016-2019 15” MacBook pro models, apple should just give us an option to swap our macbooks with 16 inch macbooks with scissor mechanism keyboards
I'd consider this, even though I had planned on moving from my '17 MBP, as long as they don't gyp you with $500-1K for a $2k+ 1-2 year old MBP, which I imagine wouldn't be much different than their other offers. I wouldn't wager a dime that this would happen though.
 

mannyvel

macrumors 6502
Mar 16, 2019
250
433
Hillsboro, OR
Except that almost everyone who has one loves them and has had no problems with them. I think it would make a better story on social influencing, that actually defective design.

I'd love just one of these "OMG there are so bad" types to come up with any statistics whatsoever. Wouldn't the after market warranty providers have a number? Certainly if they are repairing them, they must no how many
The vast majority of the market doesn't care a whit about the feel of a keyboard. It's been that way forever. However, Apple isn't the vast majority of the market. Apple's customers are a self-selected population who expect better, if not the best. I haven't upgraded my MBP because the keyboard is so bad, and I usually use an external keyboard when I type. And I know enough users with keyboard issues that I'd never touch the thing, period. My keyboard is important.

Only Apple has repair numbers, because only Apple can replace the keyboard. It's actually a royal pain to replace the keyboard; you basically have to remove the top case and swap a new one in.
 
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rjp1

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2015
282
729
please define "a lot". In your answer you are continuing the problem. there are not a lot in any measurable way, there are a few, some. Certainly there is a defect rate, but it has never been proven to be very large at all. simply saying "many, many", or "a lot" doesn't get you there
In your previous post you said:

“Except that almost everyone...”

Please define almost everyone :rolleyes:
 

Baymowe335

macrumors 603
Oct 6, 2017
5,480
9,678
You seem to fancy yourself as an expert on almost every subject. Weighing in as quick as possible when anything negative is said about Apple, be it about design, engineering, law, corporate relations, marketing etc etc, with every opinion defending Apple.

I stand by my comment.
Stand by it all you want. Class action lawsuits have a huge failure rate and when they do succeed, are almost always meaningless for the consumer and do not materially hurt the company sued. Fact.

They are almost always a complete waste of time except for lawyers.

Some of the biggest class action suits ever are for companies still around and the others are accounting fraud or health related. They are slaps on the wrist at worst. There has never been a material one against a tech company.
 
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rjp1

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2015
282
729
A link to a large study showing "much higher than 2%" defect rate please. I was under the impression that the butterfly keyboard was much worse than the previous scissor keyboards, but still *much* less than 1%.

As far as Apple knowingly selling a defective keyboard, that's obviously wrong as it's working just fine at the time of sale. At worst, it's been knowingly selling a keyboard with a higher defect rate than its predecessors.
Provide your link to the study with 98% of people not having issues please.
 
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