Lesbian wants to wear a tuxedo??

Wotan31

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Jun 5, 2008
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,567303,00.html?test=latestnews

How idiotic. It's crap like this that gives the ACLU such a bad reputation. Girl is a lesbian. Fine, whatever, who cares. But she wants to wear a tuxedo in the yearbook because "that's who she is"? Um. WTF?

Men wear a tux and women wear a dress. That's how it works. It's gender based and has nothing to do with your sexual preference. If I want to wear a t-shirt and jeans because I'm a casual kind of guy and "that's who I am", or if I want to wear a clown suit for the yearbook photo cause I'm a funny kind of guy and "that's who I am", is the ACLU going to rush a file a lawsuit on my behalf? Yeah, right. :rolleyes: These nut job ACLU people just keep upping the clueless bar.

JACKSON, Miss. — Everyone at Wesson Attendance Center knows 17-year-old Ceara Sturgis is gay because she's never tried to hide it.

But when Sturgis — an honor student, trumpet player and goalie on the school's soccer team — wanted her senior photograph in a tuxedo used in the 2009-10 yearbook, school officials balked. Traditionally, female students dress in drapes and males wear tuxedos.

Now, the American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi has gotten involved, issuing a demand letter to Principal Ronald Greer to publish the picture of Sturgis in the tuxedo. The ACLU says it's giving the school until Oct. 23 to respond before pursuing court action, said Kristy L. Bennett, the ACLU's legal director.

A secretary for Greer referred questions to Copiah County Schools Superintendent Rickey Clopton, who declined to comment on Thursday.

Sturgis said she should get to decide how she looks in the senior photo.

"I feel like I'm not important, that the school is dismissing who I am as a gay student and that they don't even care about me. All I want is to be able to be me, and to be included in the yearbook," Sturgis said in a statement.

Veronica Rodriguez, 47, said school officials are trying to force her daughter — who doesn't even own a dress — to appear more feminine.

"The tux is who she is. She wears boys' clothes. She's athletic. She's gay. She's not feminine," said Rodriguez during an interview Thursday at the ACLU office.

Rodriguez said Sturgis took her pictures over the summer instead of with the other students last year, but she used the same studio.

In August, Rodriguez said she received a letter from the school stating that only boys could wear tuxedos. Rodriguez said she met with assistant Superintendent Ronald Holloway who told her he didn't see regulations about the issue in the student handbook.

But when she talked with Greer, she said he told her it was his "conviction" that Sturgis wouldn't appear in the yearbook in a tuxedo.

Bennett said the teenager's constitutional rights are being violated. Bennett said similar cases, including same-sex prom couples and girls wearing tuxedos to proms, have been successfully challenged in court in other states. ACLU officials said they were unaware of any other constitutional disputes involving gay teens at Mississippi schools.

"You can't discriminate against somebody because they're not masculine enough or because they're not feminine enough. She's making an expression of her sexual orientation through this picture and that invokes First Amendment protection," Bennett said.

There's no state policy that deals with the yearbook photo issue, said state Department of Education spokesman Pete Smith.

The deadline for the photo to be accepted for the yearbook was Sept. 30. But advertisements for the publication are still being taken so Sturgis has time for her photo to be included, Bennett said.

Sturgis lives with her grandparents in Wesson, a town of about 1,700 founded during the Civil War in southwest Mississippi. The town's Web site said residents "pride ourselves on our quiet way of life."
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
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Lol you would be against something like this. "They were this because thats how it is damnit!" Funny :p
 

Wotan31

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Jun 5, 2008
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Lol you would be against something like this. "They were this because thats how it is damnit!" Funny :p
Against what? Did you not graduate from high school or something? It's a standard. The point is, either you maintain the standard, or you just let everyone wear whatever the heck the feel like. Honestly, I'm fine with either one. But to grant a clothing exception to one student is just silly, and for ACLU to file a lawsuit over it is plain asinine.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
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Did you not graduate from high school or something? It's a standard. The point is, either you maintain the standard, or you just let everyone wear whatever the heck the feel like. Honestly, I'm fine with either one. But to grant a clothing exception to one student is just silly, and for ACLU to file a lawsuit over it is plain asinine.
I just graduated, what standard are you talking about? I sure as hell didnt have to wear anything other than what I wanted, I wouldn't stand for anything else when I'M the one paying for the damn photos. When a school pays for the photos, then they can do what they feel like.
 

Wotan31

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Jun 5, 2008
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I just graduated, what standard are you talking about? I sure as hell didnt have to wear anything other than what I wanted, I wouldn't stand for anything else when I'M the one paying for the damn photos. When a school pays for the photos, then they can do what they feel like.
Precisely. You wore whatever you felt like - but so did all the other students. As to "what standard?" Read the article again. It said that school had a standard that men wore a tux and women wore a dress.

Answer me this: Did you also wear the graduation cap and gown for the ceremony? And was that cap and gown required for the ceremony?
 

bobber205

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2005
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Oregon
Precisely. You wore whatever you felt like - but so did all the other students. Did you also wear the graduation cap and gown for the ceremony? And was that cap and gown required for the ceremony?
Men and women wear essentially the same cap and gown. Telling someone they can't do something based on gender, I believe, is illegal.
 

Wotan31

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Jun 5, 2008
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Men and women wear essentially the same cap and gown. Telling someone they can't do something based on gender, I believe, is illegal.
Irrelevant. The point being that the cap and gown is required attire. I.e. it is a standard. You don't see any graduations with 300 cap and gowns and 1 person wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

As to the legality, it doesn't hold for school students. Plenty of private schools that have specific dress codes for men and for women. Also plenty of public schools that specify what you can and can't wear, by gender.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
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San Francisco, CA
Precisely. You wore whatever you felt like - but so did all the other students. As to "what standard?" Read the article again. It said that school had a standard that men wore a tux and women wore a dress.

Answer me this: Did you also wear the graduation cap and gown for the ceremony? And was that cap and gown required for the ceremony?
No, the standard is formal wear. But because supposedly women wear dresses and men wear tuxes this issue never came up.

She's not wearing something different from all the other students, she's wearing a tux along with all the men. Why is that a problem?
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
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San Francisco, CA
So why did school deny her request then? You didn't read the article. Tsk, tsk.
From the article:

"Rodriguez said she met with assistant Superintendent Ronald Holloway who told her he didn't see regulations about the issue in the student handbook."

Now who didn't read the article? :rolleyes:
 

bobber205

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2005
2,182
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Oregon
When you think someone shouldn't be able to do something solely based on gender and their sexuality, that is being against "teh gays" by definition. The very fact this bothered you at all that this poor young girl wanted to do this makes me very sad.
 

DoNoHarm

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2008
1,120
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Maine
Against what? Did you not graduate from high school or something? It's a standard. The point is, either you maintain the standard, or you just let everyone wear whatever the heck the feel like. Honestly, I'm fine with either one. But to grant a clothing exception to one student is just silly, and for ACLU to file a lawsuit over it is plain asinine.
I think what may be making it difficult for you to accept the woman's side of the story is that you view her wish to wear a tuxedo as a fasion statement resulting from a choice or preference. This is implicit in your statement.

I personally feel that for most LGBT people, their sexual identity is not a choice. Asking this woman to wear clothing traditionally worn by heterosexual females might be as awkward for her as it would be for you to wear clothing of the opposite sex of whatever you are.....

Even if you want to stretch the definition of "choice" and say that technically every man in the world is making a choice by not wearing a dress every day, I would argue that the "choice" to wear clothes with the gender you identify with is nothing at all like the choice of whether to wear a t-shirt or sweater.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
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Well, the dress code is formal wear, but there's nothing that says specifically that a girl has to wear a dress.
There you go... case solved. The school can't impose something on this girl because they don't have a dress code defined for their student body.

All that is needed now is to prove that in court with a copy of the handbook... that is assuming the handbook clearly states there is no set guidelines for students regarding clothing.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
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San Francisco, CA
There you go... case solved. The school can't impose something on this girl because they don't have a dress code defined for their student body.

All that is needed now is to prove that in court with a copy of the handbook... that is assuming the handbook clearly states there is no set guidelines for students regarding clothing.
From the article:

In August, Rodriguez said she received a letter from the school stating that only boys could wear tuxedos. Rodriguez said she met with assistant Superintendent Ronald Holloway who told her he didn't see regulations about the issue in the student handbook.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
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San Francisco, CA
We have conflicting stuff here... first the school says "no you can't", later we have the Super Intendant saying "There is nothing in the handbook that says you can't"

I have a feeling this will end bad. Meaning they will get their cr@p together and end up forcing this girl to wear a dress.
Well, apparently the Principal said it was his "conviction" that she shouldn't appear in the yearbook in a tuxedo, even though nothing in the handbook says so.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
16,864
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1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Well, apparently the Principal said it was his "conviction" that she shouldn't appear in the yearbook in a tuxedo, even though nothing in the handbook says so.
Ah, now there is something. The word "conviction" is another word describing personal opinion and since in this case personal opinion =/= handbook. I say the girl has a potential win here.... that is, if she can correctly prove it.