Less than Lethal Home Defense

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by carbonmotion, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. carbonmotion, Aug 16, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  2. Designer Dale macrumors 68040

    Designer Dale

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    #2
    I read that rock salt was a good alternative to buckshot. But not in a high-end weapon. More like a double barrel with one rock salt and one buckshot round.

    Dale
     
  3. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #3
    First let me preface this by stating that I am not a lawyer and this is just my opinion.

    In the lawsuit happy era we live in today, especially in CA, I would advise against less-lethal loads in firearms for citizen self-defense. Less than lethal loads can still kill or maim and if your friend accidentally kills or maims someone in a situation where he just wanted to attempt to temporarily disable them then he is probably going to end up in court defending himself. Also there is no guarantee that the less than lethal load will disable the target and even if it does what is your buddy's next move? Is he going to sprint over to the temporarily dazed aggressor and attempt to subdue him until the cops show up?

    If you/your family is not in imminent danger call the cops and wait it out. If you/your family is in imminent danger shoot to kill. That's just my 2 cents.


    Lethal
     
  4. ethical macrumors 68000

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    #4
    LethalWolfe makes a good point. Say you hit this guy with a non-lethal round, after about 20-30 minutes I reckon he'll be able to get up (although I don't know anything about these rounds)...and boy will he be pissed! How fast is your police response? IMO, keep it lethal.
     
  5. Ttownbeast macrumors 65816

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    #5
    For those without the budget for a decent firearm I've found from experience that a decent quality gas powered weed trimmer is an effective home defense tool the Craftsman brand is always dependable for 1/10th the cost of a Smith and Wesson and manages to get enough of the neighbors' attention around midnight providing useful witnesses.

    If you can afford a firearm I say go for it but invest in rounds with stopping power rather than penetration the better it hits rather than easily goes through someone. Even a properly shaped .22 cal round can stop someone or it can go through them and they keep coming at you--shape of the projectile can be as important as power .22 hollow point can be as damaging as a regular .38 round a flat nosed .22 round can stop somebody by percussion more than it can if it goes through them.
     
  6. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #6
    From the little I've read about the less than lethal rounds is that they are designed to only momentarily stun someone so that a waiting gaggle of other officers can jump in and restrain the suspect.


    Lethal
     
  7. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #7

    Man and weed eater:
    Vroommm! Cttt. Dang! Vroommm! Cttt. Dang! Vroommm! Cttt. Dang! Vroommm! Cttt. Dang! Oh no! Aaaaahhhhhhhh, he cut me!!!!

    Burglar/rapist/murderer:
    Whoa! What was that... is that idiot trying to start a weed eater? Kill him! Slit.

    Neighbors:
    What's that idiot doing running his weed eater at 3:00 in the morning for?! I'm going to kick his ass when I wake up.
    Go back to bed, honey!
     
  8. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #8
    He could always use bird shot in the shot gun. It is going to Hurt like he'll but they do not go in as far.

    I have read if you use a gun shot to kill because other wise you can land you self in legal trouble. The person can press charges and sue you. Chances are the charges will be dropped but you still have to defend your self. If sued chances are good you will win but yet again you have to pay the legal fees. Remember a dead man tells no tells.
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    Tell your friend to read "Walter the Farting Dog".
     
  10. Shotglass macrumors 65816

    Shotglass

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    #10
    As sound as that sounds, I'm a tad disturbed… ::eek:
     
  11. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #11
    Why not keep the real thing and if God forbid he meets the guy he tells the bugger than he will "effing shoot!"? :confused:
     
  12. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #12
    This isn't a bad idea.
     
  13. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #13
    plus I might like to add the person who got shot with the bird shot is not going to be able able to move very fast and will be in a lot of pain until they get to a hospital. Problem with things like Bean bags and rock salt is they stun from the first hit but they would recover fairly quickly. You have to be pretty close to do anything (less than 10ft) to get the burning effect. Really would do nothing more than showing that you have a gun.

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm
     
  14. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    In reality land the number of murderers/rapists who attack people in their own homes is absolutely tiny (unless the person being killed is a drug dealer or something). And burglars are highly unlikely to want to go to prison for murder by killing someone in the act.
     
  15. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #15
    Don't forget that the second you pull the trigger, not only do you incapacitate the intruder, but you shoot bird-shot, rock-salt, or whatever into your 6 year old son's eyes who happened to be watching around the corner from where you were standing.

    Hey guess what? It's not that big a deal to be the father of a blind kid who lives with the mother who divorced you because you shot your kid.
     
  16. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #16
    A 22-long to the head will kill, and not travel through several walls, and people.

    High-velocity, jacketed rounds, kill more bystanders than any other.

    I like the idea of using low-velocity lead rounds, and tapping a cross into the top of the bullet with a sharp knife. As explained earlier, this round will not go through the intended target and take-out a loved one.
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #17
    A friend of mine who is big into handloading ammunition once mentioned to me that he only uses unmodified factory ammunition in his personal defense weapons because altering your ammunition can be used by an overzealous prosecutor against you at trial to try and establish a pattern of aggressive behavior that could lead to culpability.

    He keeps a .38 Special (a Python no less, a real beauty) loaded with those Glaser safety slugs in the locked box under his bed. With reloads of both Glaser rounds and hollow points available. He saves his handloaded ammunition for hunting and competitions.
     
  18. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #18
    This is excellent, especially if he has children in the house.

    But, it requires a level of advanced warning, to allow time to prepare to defend his home from a lethal threat.

    An alarm system, a bed-room door "jack", something to give him time.
     
  19. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #19
    Alarm system, motion sensors attached to lights (and sprinklers, you'll be wet if you persist in coming in), and two big dogs.

    And really, the only time it takes is like 5 seconds for him to roll off the bed and push the combination buttons on the safe. It's not like it's a tumbler lock or anything.
     
  20. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #20
    You had me at dogs, no matter what size. ;)
     
  21. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #21
    That's why a security system is much safer and more effective than a gun. The immense majority of burglars don't want to deal with anyone when they're coming into a house, usually preferring to hit empty houses. A security system with door and window sensors, glass break sensors, motion sensors, automatic floodlights and 130db sirens inside and out will both contact the police and send almost any intruder packing right away. Plus it a) works when you're not around to defend your house and b) includes smoke alarms that dial 911 for you (ours also has pipe freeze detectors).

    One of our neighbors has this sign at the end of his driveway. Kind of an advertisement saying: "hey there would-be criminal, if I'm not here my house isn't protected!". :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #22
    dogs work fairly well even though most are pretty worthless as a guard dog. I have had a lab and a beagle. THe beagle was a great watch dog but as soon as she was petted she loved you. The last lab and the current one would bark a little but more than likely would lick you to death before they did anything else. Hell I pretty sure the last lab she would of help you rob the place.

    That being said they all were/are great for stopping people from wanting to break in because if you are willing to chance yourself with a dog a lock door is not going to stop you.
     
  23. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #23
    Our German Shepherd is great...the doors to the house have windows and she gets up against the glass barking and snapping with her fur up any time someone shows up. Of course she's a total pushover, but she looks and sounds terrifying.

    One time we were out for the afternoon and something malfunctioned in our security system. A cop came to investigate and us a note saying he'd come inside the house to make sure everything was alright--and that the dog had put on a ferocious guard dog show...until he opened the door and she only wanted him to throw her a tennis ball. :rolleyes:
     
  24. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #24
    My dog is more of an early warning system than an actual threat. Nobody gets with a quarter mile of the house without us knowing...
     
  25. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #25
    The potential burglar in question better be allergic to dog saliva and cat hair, because that's all the protection the family pets have to offer. :eek:
     

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