Let's Talk About Taxes

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    Long and very interesting article on taxes. Very good read.


     
  2. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #2
    Take that, fivepoint. Where has he been btw? Haven't seen him around here in a while.
     
  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #3
    I'll bet he moved on to forums where his ideas were more warmly accepted.

    On the issues of taxes ... tax me more!

    Sure, tax the rich more too.

    But every American should be chipping in to solve the issues that we're facing.

    We're in the lifeboat, and the water's rising. Everybody pick up a pail and start bailing.
     
  4. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    You can always donate to the federal reserve. Don't let me stop you!
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Pardon me for trying to spread the responsibility across the board.

    I realize how grossly unfair that is. :rolleyes:
     
  6. balamw Moderator

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  7. KingYaba macrumors 68040

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  8. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    Admittedly, I didn't read the article posted by rdowns, but from reading the quotes he put in the OP, I'd have to say I disagree somewhat with your comments. Sure, we should all be working together, but the point is that those who are making the most are not paying at the same share/percentage as those who are lower or middle income.

    Is it fair and in line with "everyone chipping in" if the person making $50,000 a year has to pay 20+% of their income, but the person making $1,000,000 a year only has to pay 16%?

    Additionally, let's not forget that there is a lot of tension between "everyone chipping in" and the select few who make the decisions about how what has been "chipped in" gets spent. I have no problem doing my part to pay taxes as I do benefit from roads, schools, etc., but I do have a problem with a lot of the wasteful ways in which tax money is spent. We could all benefit from some efficiency, improved budgeting, and controlled spending on the government level.
     
  9. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

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    That's where GE got the idea. ;)
     
  10. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    I believe in progressive chipping in.


    No doubt. However, while waste and efficiency is one thing, I think we can also benefit from an examination of our national priorities.

    And while it's probably not practical, I'd love to see a system where taxpayers actually had some say in where their taxes went. Imagine a system where the government took 50% of taxes to distribute as it pleased and gave the taxpayer a checklist of programs to distribute the other 50%.

    In my case, the military would get nothing. Abortions for unwed mothers, on the other hand, could afford gold-plates scalpels. (Kidding ... just kidding. They'd still have to use the regular kind.)
     
  11. ender land macrumors 6502a

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    Interesting article. More or less well thought out.

    This is such a lie, lol, social security is half funded by businesses. Those who are self employed have to pay 2x what most of us pay because they pay the 'company' portion too.

    The chart under 3, with someone making 26k and paying 6k in federal tax is a bit of a misnomer; I made nearly this much last year and paid zero in federal tax. So while it might be possible to pay that much I would imagine the majority of Americans do NOT pay 6k out of a 26k income.

    The "it wasn't always like this" chart seems to be indicating that average effective incomes -accounting for inflation - have dropped significantly over the past 28 years (well 31 now, presumably the author would state the trend continues). By roughly a factor of 180% (!). Literally, 1$ they had in 1980 would buy the equivalent of about $0.35 now. But then again, a chart without any sort of labels or context or clarification is not really too valid in terms of making an argument either way. Not to mention the numbers do not align with any of the figures in the "The Wage Gap Widens" chart above it.

    The stuff on the Making Work Pay Credit is funny to me, this credit isn't a tax cut so much as a tax rebate - it is a refundable credit, so if you have enough tax deductions you can actually receive this $400/800 a year back from the government even if you do not pay any taxes. This is not a tax cut. This is a rebate/stimulus. A tax cut would not refund you beyond what you paid in taxes. Not taking money from one person and giving it to another.

    Finally, the last section is interesting. Perhaps it is true, and other governments do it better - our government has been fiscally irresponsible for years. I do NOT want them to control that much of my income until they prove fiscally responsible. If they can bring the budget under balance over the next few years in manners other than blatantly increasing taxes (perhaps a combination of slightly increasing taxes but many spending cuts) then I will feel confident in them being able to manage money well. But until they do that, I do not have a lot of faith in them being able to handle an increase in funds any more effectively than they do now.


    Overall, I think this was a fairly decent attempt. In spite of a lot of errors it does show what should be obvious to anyone paying attention to American economic tax policies as of late - taxes on the rich are less now than they were before.
     
  12. MacNut macrumors Core

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    So we have websites that allow us to track where a dollar goes, how about letting us see where all the money the government spends is going
     
  13. ender land macrumors 6502a

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  14. MacNut macrumors Core

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  15. balamw Moderator

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  16. Huntn, Apr 14, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011

    Huntn macrumors P6

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    #16
    This may be veering in a direction the OP does not want to go. If so, please ignore.

    Speaking of taxes don't believe any politician who seeks your approval by saying "elect me and I'll lower your taxes". Most likely what they are saying is I'll lower your taxes a smidgen, but I'll give a dump truck of tax breaks to the wealthy who as leaders of industry will do their best to destroy your lively hood by exporting your job overseas.

    What you want to hear from politicians on taxes is a discussion framed as "what services do we want from government, what do we want to pay for, how and who will pay for it, and expectation that the government will penalize corporations whose business practices are actively lowering the standard of living in this country."
     
  17. vincenz macrumors 601

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    The money printers have to eat too ;)
     
  18. Sydde macrumors 68020

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    Yes, I want to donate to the Fed (so that my money can go lie on a Cayman island beach, since I never will be able to).
     
  19. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

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    I couldn't agree with you more. I think we ought to take the far lefties and the Tea Partyers and tell them to go into a room and hammer out a deal. Then the 60% of the sane people could have real negotiations.
     
  20. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

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    Republicans - "I am in favor of decreasing government spending, and I have the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is by voluntarily not utilizing government programs, but I am nonetheless going to utilize of those programs if other people do."

    Democrats - "I am in favor of increasing government taxation, and I have the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is by voluntarily paying more taxes, but I am nonetheless not going to if other people don't."

    Republicans - "The economy is doing great. Therefore, now is the time to cut the highest tax rates."

    Republicans - "The economy is doing awful. Therefore, now is the time to cut the highest tax rates."

    Democrats - "The economy is doing great. Therefore, now is the time to increase the highest tax rates."

    Democrats - "The economy is doing awful. Therefore, now is the time to increase the highest tax rates."

    Personally, I think we need to increase taxes across the board. Otherwise, we won't have enough money to continue the three wars we are in, and we would be forced to pull out of them. That would be awful.
     
  21. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    Holy crap! You know these things are going on but to read the details is nauseating.

     
  22. eawmp1 macrumors 601

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    I am not sure why the increasing erosion of the middle class and income discrepancy between the haves, and have nots, isn't realized as a major security problem in the US. The working middle class and poor can only be pushed around so much until somebody is going to get pissed off. A socialist/populist revolt ala Egypt is not inconceivable.
     
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Which is exactly what I said. But you couldn't help twisting the dagger a little bit by saying ...

    Democrats - "I am in favor of increasing government taxation, and I have the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is by voluntarily paying more taxes, but I am nonetheless not going to if other people don't."​


    So are you, on your own, going to voluntarily give money to the government? Or do we get to lump you in with your description of Democrats?
     
  24. rdowns thread starter macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #24

    Our financial situation is recognized by some as a great threat.

     
  25. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Maybe we can get the military to invade it. ;)
     

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