LGBT messed up

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. jkcerda, Feb 12, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016

    jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #1
    by endorsing Clinton, Sanders is the one with the consistent track record supporting them .
    http://www.alternet.org/election-20...-powerful-record-civil-and-human-rights-1950s
    Clinton?

    --- Post Merged, Feb 12, 2016 ---
    Bernie is consistent.


    you could not get any consistency out of clinton unless you filled her with metamucil

    the endorsement
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ement-lgbt-rights_us_569e2aa5e4b0cd99679b3e74
     
  2. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #2
    I don't know a single gay, bi, or trans person who is voting for Clinton. You do realize these people are like us - they have brains, and opinions, and stuff, right?

    What does LGBT messed up mean? Is that a person?
     
  3. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #3
  4. ericgtr12 macrumors 6502a

    ericgtr12

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    #4
    In the end they'll vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is if they like equal rights.
     
  5. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    one has been consistent while the other?
     
  6. ericgtr12 macrumors 6502a

    ericgtr12

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    #6
    Obama, Bill Clinton (with DOMA) et al spouted the same lines. This is nothing new, I'm personally glad to see that we've evolved on this issue as a country. The LGBT community has just as much of a right to be in a miserable marriage as the rest of us. :D
     
  7. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #7
    what is "new" is that she flip flopped when she found it convenient, as she has in many other issues.
     
  8. ericgtr12 macrumors 6502a

    ericgtr12

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    #8
    They all do, just ask any president since the emancipation proclamation whether they think it was wrong or not, before and after Lincoln. Progress, it's a good thing.
     
  9. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #9
    I think the endorsement is fairly meaningless. In my experience, LGBT folks tend to be more politically educated than the average. For many, this education is matter of survival. Anyone familiar or affiliated with the organization will most likely have their own opinion on who will best represent them.
     
  10. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #10
    ok, find me a civil rights issue where Bernie flip flopped.
     
  11. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #11
    He has gone back and forth a bit on Israel-Palestine. A slight flip-flop. Small enough for me to overlook in light of the rest of his platform.
     
  12. ericgtr12 macrumors 6502a

    ericgtr12

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    #12
    Sure, it's also on record.

    Sanders is not quite the gay rights visionary his defenders would like us to believe. Sanders did oppose DOMA—but purely on states’ rights grounds. And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont. The senator may have evolved earlier than his primary opponents. But the fact remains that, in the critical early days of the modern marriage equality movement, Sanders was neutral at best and hostile at worst.
    Source: Slate.com
     
  13. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #13
    even Ron Paul found it convenient to flip flop on the issue of gay rights in order to get votes.......it was a very popular flip flop
     
  14. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #14
    Here is a letter Sanders wrote in the early 1970's. Pay close attention to item #3.

    [​IMG]
    More here about his time as mayor and about DOMA: http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...huck-todd-bernie-sanders-there-same-sex-marr/

    Sanders has been an ally of the gay community for quite some time.
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    Ron Paul believed the government should dictate who private citizens can and cannot marry? Sort of destroys his libertarian cred, IMO.
     
  16. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #16
    Ron Paul never said government should dictate who citizens should marry. quite the contrary he has repeatedly said that he believed it was a state issue - not big government. His message has been consistent about little govt not big brother.
     
  17. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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    #17
    To be honest, on this particular issue I don't really give a crap about someone's prior stance. I care about the candidates stance on the issue TODAY. Most of the country "flip flopped" and evolved on this issue in the last 10 years, that's not unique to politicians and I'm beyond proud of the progress we've made. She supports marriage equality today and I don't have to worry about her packing SCOTUS with anti-gay justices who would love nothing more than to reverse Obergefell. You really have no argument here. I value my rights, and as long as Democrats are running the show I don't have to worry about constant efforts from the right to dismantle any progress being made. I have peace of mind and that means a hell of a lot more to me than the fact Hillary was at one time against marriage equality. There's no way you can convince me not to vote for Hillary if she ends up winning the primary, that would be a really f***ing stupid move on my part.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 13, 2016 ---
    That's a cop out of a position and I have no respect for it. Civil rights violations are not a state's rights issue and the federal government putting an end to those violations is not "big brother", quite the contrary. Maybe if Ron Paul had to worry about his marriage becoming null and void as soon as he crosses a state line and becoming legal strangers with his spouse, his position would quickly change. State's rights was always a BS cop out argument that usually comes from people who oppose marriage equality and know they have no other legitimate argument against it so they pull the "state rights" card. It's pure BS that thankfully has been rejected by SCOTUS.
     
  18. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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    #18
    Way too much noise out there for less than 2% of the population.
     
  19. WarHeadz, Feb 13, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016

    WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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    #19
    Very very true. I obsessively track everything going on in the political world and the bills making their way through state legislatures. Not just on gay rights, but on all issues. When I tell most straight people that it's still legal to discriminate against gay people in public establishments in about half the country, they're utterly shocked and outraged. It's amazing how uninformed you can be about something when it doesn't impact you directly, even if your heart is in the right place.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 13, 2016 ---
    Ha. There wouldn't be any "noise" if the right wasn't constantly working to undermine our rights. Seems most of the "noise" is coming from your side of the aisle throwing one of their usual tantrums and who seem to have developed a sick obsession with concocting new ways of making our lives more difficult, but then whine about "too much noise" for a minority population. What a disgusting, mean spirited, nasty mentality to hold. No one is buying that crap anymore. Too much noise for you? Boo effing hoo, buy some ear plugs. Justice and equality for ALL, just just the majority. Those are true American values, and a concept that unfortunately has escaped from the modern GOP.
     
  20. Macky-Mac, Feb 13, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016

    Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #20
    When it comes to Ron Paul, you always have to be clear about whether you're talking about the US federal government or the governments of individual states. Ron Paul was an old school social conservative who was perfectly willing for the state governments to trample on the rights of individuals when it came to social issues.

    When it came to the Federal Government, he didn't believe gays have a "right" to marry, he supported DOMA and DADT, voted to ban gays from adopting children, opposed redefining marriage as anything other than a union between 1 man and 1 woman, co-sponsored the "Marriage Protection Act" which would prevent the Supreme Court from ruling on cases against DOMA, introduced the "We the People" act that would ban the Supreme Court from ruling on claims involving the "right of privacy" in sexual behavior or ruling on claims that gay marriage was allowed based on the "equal protection" clause........just another old style social conservative activist

    (link)
     
  21. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #21
    Whether the federal or the state government is telling me who I can and cannot marry (among other things), I still don't like it. A true libertarian would oppose that at any level. So, Ron Paul is not a true libertarian.
     
  22. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #22
    I'd agree with you about that.
     
  23. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #23
    A libertarian would argue *to each his own* without government interference, rather than *you should feel as I feel*.
     
  24. tunerX Suspended

    tunerX

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    #24
    I don't think a "true" libertarian exists. Ron Paul is an American libertarian who values the US bill of rights. A libertarian without a constitution is an anarchist.
     

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