Libertarianism

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ZiggyPastorius, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. ZiggyPastorius macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #1
    As a very extreme libertarian, I'm curious as to what everyone's political views are, and what they think of libertarianism. I also open the thread for any questions about Libertarianism, and any debates :) Enjoy!
     
  2. thechidz macrumors 68000

    thechidz

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    #2
    i've learned a lot about it from foloowing ron paul.. very interesting stuff
     
  3. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #3
    I worked as a librarian for a few years when I was in college. I wasn't an extreme librarian, but I had a couple of adventures. We had an occult section. I remember the time some first year got lost and opened up the Dread Book of Mordu.

    "Foolish freshman!" I bellowed down the grey stone hallways, "have you any idea what you've done!"

    Frantically, eyes wide with confusion and terror, the freshman -- now the freshmeat -- slammed the pages of the ancient text shut, dropping the flesh-bound and ash-writ tome to the dusty cobblestone walkway. Too late, his face cried, distorted with the energies of the nether, already the void having taken hold of his human frame. His form swelled and twisted, he rose up above the alcove, his tissue and bone now a distorted herald of things to come.

    "THE SEAS WILL BOIL. THE STREETS WILL RUN THICK WITH BLOOD. THE DEAD SHALL RISE. DESPAIR, MORTAL, FOR THE TIME OF MORDU IS AT HAND!"

    Defiantly, I clutched the Eye of Agamotto, raising it before me. "Foul demon!" I cried "let go of the innocent! You shall not corrupt my dewey decimal system with your dark arts!"

    Oh boy, that was a long night. Probably not as exciting as you're used to, but as I said, I was never all that extreme.
     
  4. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #4
    Small "l" or big "L", there is a difference. Just as for democrat vs. Democrat. ;)

    EDIT: LOL Iscariot.

    B
     
  5. thechidz macrumors 68000

    thechidz

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    #5
    canadiens will never understand. Disregard...
     
  6. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #6
    Are you a consequentialist or a moralist?
     
  7. mduser63 macrumors 68040

    mduser63

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    #7
    I wouldn't call myself an "extreme" libertarian, but I am a libertarian (both big and little 'L'). My philosophy is really simple. Only those things which infringe upon the rights of someone other than the "doer" in some measurable, material way should be illegal. I also generally think the role of government should be small, but that's not to say I'm anti-government. If I had to place myself on the "left-right" spectrum (which I generally reject) I'd say I lean left in that I find the Democrats slightly less disgusting that the Republicans. I'm very much an environmentalist and am anti-war which gives the Democrats a very slight edge.

    FWIW, I consider myself quite religious. I'm sincere in my beliefs and active in my church. However, I don't believe that give me the right or the obligation to attempt to dictate others' actions based on those beliefs, and I think that that kind of thinking has done a great deal of damage in this country, particularly at the hands of the so-called religious right. On that point, for example, while I don't agree with gay marriage from a religious standpoint, I'm all for legalizing it because frankly I don't believe it's any of mine or the government's business to say who can and can't be married and I'm not so arrogant as to think that there's no way my belief isn't wrong. Same sort of position when it comes to drugs. I have not nor will I ever use drugs myself, but if other people want to, that is completely fine with me.

    EDIT: Woah, there were no replies when I started typing!
     
  8. stevento macrumors 6502

    stevento

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    #8
    libertarians are cool
    ron paul was a republican who recognizes that the constitution was written to RESTRAIN gov't. a shield not a sword.
    some of his view were kinda out there but his base, i like. he was a republican but NOT a neocon warmonger
     
  9. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #9
  10. thechidz macrumors 68000

    thechidz

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    #10
  11. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #11
    How was it condescending?
     
  12. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #12
    Have you ever taken the "Political Compass" test? http://www.politicalcompass.org/ It adds a libertarian/authoritarian axis to the left right spectrum.

    I've consistently found myself in the lower left (left/libertarian) quadrant over the years, sometime close to center.

    EDIT: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=84734

    B
     
  13. ZiggyPastorius thread starter macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #13
    I've never really thought about these too much to really label myself one. From a political standpoint, I basically agree with what mduser said. I also believe that those things which should be illegal are those directly infringe on the rights of another.

    As for Ron Paul, he received from attention from the LP, and while I agreed with many of his stances, there were a few that kind of bothered me that led me away from him. I'm one of those weirdos who won't vote for the lesser of evils.

    I don't follow the big L and little l thing..what am I missing? I'm a bit thick, forgive me :p

    Specific things can help people to explain things better, such as, "what is your opinion on x?"
     
  14. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #14
    Americans have a innate belief in some aspect of libertarianism, yet do not embrace every aspect of it, or subscribe to its many incarnations.
     
  15. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #15
    Big l Libertarians belong to a particular party, little l libertarians don't. The two may, or not, overlap. As pointed out above, by some measures I am a little l libertarian, but I am also usually left of center on economic matters which is not a position that fits well with most big L Libertarians in the US.

    One would hope, for example, that most members of the Republican party are also democrats even though they may not be Democrats.

    B
     
  16. ZiggyPastorius thread starter macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #16
    Ah, well, I am technically independant, when it comes to issues and parties. However, my beliefs almost always fall in line with libertarian ideals, which sometimes fall in line with some ideals of other parties.

    By the way, I took that political compass quiz, and I am in the very center of the right/libertarian box, so, perhaps I'm not as extreme as I thought.

    Actually, funny story, on my MME (Michigan Merit Exam) that I took very recently, there were two "social studies" essay questions, that I probably got bad grades on :p because, both of them had loaded, biased data. They supply you with these charts and data on such, and say, choose a side of this debate, and both times, I picked no, because I refused to claim to believe one side when I really believe the other (for the second one, the only way I managed to do this was to be sarcastic, which they probably won't like when they grade it). But my no positions, were pretty anti-government. I'm not 100% against government, but these questions were really loaded (they were about, "should the government enact a law that does this..." with data that only supported the yes side, and my answer was no). Anyways, just thought I'd share that.

    Edit #2: Another thing that could be fun to discuss. Anarcho-capitalism. I've often read into, and tried to sway towards the anarcho-capitalistic radicalism, however, there are certain real-world implications and practicalities that I question. Does anyone have any knowledge of anarcho-capitalism before I elabourate?
     
  17. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #17
    But you are! ;) You're in a quadrant not represented by any of the mainstream party candidates. http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

    I at least have Nader in mine. :p

    B
     
  18. ZiggyPastorius thread starter macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #18
    Oh, true! I didn't think about it that way :p I often describe myself as socially left and economically right, so I guess it makes a bit of sense. Also, it appears I (Maybe?) am not a consequentialist libertarian, as I believe in the non-aggression axiom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_axiom) But I'd have to do some more research to determine for sure.

    Does anybody have some specific issues or anything to discuss? :)
     
  19. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    #19
    I just did that test and got

    Economic Left/Right: -3.25
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.64

    Which looks like I'm almost slap bang where the Dalai Lama is :cool:
     
  20. ZiggyPastorius thread starter macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #20
    Okay! On the face of things (just skimming through some Wikipedia), this is how in accepted terms, I believe I can be described.

    I'm a socially left, economically right extreme libertarian, who follows the non-aggresion axiom, and is a moral relativist.
     
  21. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #21
    I'm in the same neighborhood.

    Over the years as I have taken the test I've moved around the box from -5.5 to 0 (and back) on the left/right axis and between -3 to -5.5 on the authoritarian/libertarian axis.

    B
     
  22. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #22
    I remember taking this test in high school more than 3 years ago, and I'm glad to know that my results haven't changed dramatically.

    Economic Left/Right: -2.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.59

    I honestly thought I'd be more socially liberal though; I can't think of an answer I gave that was on the conservative end. :confused:

    To the point of the thread:

    I'm a slight libertarian in the sense that I think the government should remain hands-off in as many areas as possible, and that the primary goal of government is to provide independent regulation, safety, and better access to information. Essentially my philosophy is that we can't expect businesses to regulate themselves or to tell the truth, so we need laws and agencies to oversee that.

    I also happen to believe that education and services like running water are critical for society because they represent unique societal interests. Education is better for society because we get a better equipped workforce and a more capable citizenry from it, and basic services like water and environmental regulation are important because they can become easily subjugated to the tragedy of the commons.
     
  23. EricNau Moderator emeritus

    EricNau

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    #23
    Guess I'm living next door, with a score of:
    Economic Left/Right: -3.62
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.26​

    I've found that I share many of the Libertarian views, but only to a moderate (or in my opinion, reasonable) extent. For this reason, I find that I cannot relate to the typical (albeit stereotyped) Libertarians who want no laws so that children are free to play with assault rifles and smoke marijuana, and eventually end the need for a government altogether.

    When I take the World's Smallest Political Quiz, I place at the intersection between Centrist, Liberal, and Libertarian.
     

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  24. stevento macrumors 6502

    stevento

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    #24
    i've taken those types of quizzes too
    i'm super liberal on almost everything
    but i am extremely conservative on abortion and gov't spending. so i got put into the centrist category
     
  25. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #25
    Economic Left/Right: -8.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.51

    [​IMG]

    and

    [​IMG]

    Whatever that means! :p
     

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