License to use your car

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sydde, May 9, 2015.

  1. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    Aug 17, 2009
    #1
    No, not the plate with the numbers and letters on it, nor the little plastic card with your picture and birthdate on it, this is something completely different.

    For some of you (perhaps many of you) this will raise your hackles.

    Some auto makers are arguing that the electronica in the cars they produce are covered by the DMCA, that the buyers of their products should not be allowed to do any kind of work on those vehicles because they are copyrighted. They are arguing that they, the manufacturers should by IP law even be empowered to deny their customers the right to go to any mechanic who has not been approved by them.

    Do they have a leg to stand on? Should they?
     
  2. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #2
    Not sure how I feel about this. It's a tricky one for sure. Should we force Boeing or Airbus to open-source their aircraft's proprietary code and let anyone work on it?
     
  3. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #3
    I more or less agree with the person who said:

    More or less, but, do you really want people modifying the code for their electronic anti-lock braking and traction control system? I also have little problem with that code being copyrighted. But, I still think you own the car. Unless it is leased. If your favorite car companies go to a lease-only model, I'm not sure there is a lot you can do about it. But, I imagine at least one company will hold out.
     
  4. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    Arizona
    #4
    This is a bad idea. Sure, they might be able to do this. However, it would be a poor business decision. As stated above, there will be makers that will continue(or emerge) manufacturing 'mechanically friendly' vehicles that most middle and all lower class citizens can benifit from financially.
     
  5. A.Goldberg, May 9, 2015
    Last edited: May 9, 2015

    A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #5
    BMW finatics are very big into "coding", which is reprogramming the car's computer to change how things operate, such as which exterior lights come on when you unlock the car, making it so you fold the power mirrors with the key fob, changing the hazard light blink pattern, making it so when you shut off the car with the wipers on they go all the way down, etc. I believe many of these functions even dealer computers cannot activate.

    I'm sure they would not be happy to hear about this. I'm a little split on the issue. I think there are definitely safety issues that could come into play. On the other hand, programs have been developed to allow owners (of all different vehicles) reset codes in their car that a dealer would charge an arm and a leg for. Forcing customers to return to the dealer just to reset warning lamps is a smart, but dirty business practice. I'm not talking about OBDII codes that can be cleared with a $30 scanner, but the custom computer systems manufacturers use that require a $15,000+ computer system.

    I have a BMW 5-Series. Changing the battery "requires" the new battery "be programmed". Are you kidding me? That $200-250 DIY battery from AutoZone now costs $500 to get installed by the dealer. Not to get into a debate about foreign car ownership, but there should be some level of DIY possible on cars IMO. The more dealers computerize things and make at home mechanics work harder, the more people will push back creating ways to hack the computers.

    Volvo has an official, company endorsed optional software update for some of their vehicles (it will not void the warranty) that gives you a decent boost in power/performance by reprogramming the onboard computer. They charge around $1250 to unlock the hidden potential of the car. I suppose they may do it for consumer end insurance purposes or tax purposes to keep the performance down, but $1250 is a good chunk just to change some parameters around.

    Screwing with the software voids your warranty. The owner takes on the risk. If they dont want this to happen, put out the performance in the first place, I guess.
     
  6. lostngone macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

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    #6
    ??? I don't know about open source? However if I can afford a used 737 or A320 and get a expermental classification on the airframe why shouldn't I be allowed to modify or work on it?
     
  7. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    Jan 19, 2014
    #7
    Ummm, because if you mess up you turn it into an uncontrollable flying missile that would be a grave public danger. There is a public interest in the safety and standardized good working order of large aircraft.
     
  8. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #8
    You won't get a license to fly your missile.
     
  9. Sydde thread starter macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #9
    Compared to the OP subject, that is profoundly straw-manny. Modifications to your 737 or A320 would need to be approved by the FAA, due to the really-really-bad-consequences-for-others potential that such a jalopy has. Even if you can get by flying it from your own personal strip in Wyoming to your own family strip on Martinique (without using actual airports, which are kind of tightly regulated), you still have to dodge the F-18s that want to shoot you down for unauthorized use of the public airspace.
     
  10. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #10
    Well, ok as long as every modification requires a new, comprehensive license/safety inspection along with a fee to cover the inspection cost. Not sure this example is analogous to the issues raised in the OP however.
     
  11. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #11
    Straw-man? I can think of many plausible scenarios where ISIS buys a used 747-400, fills it with TNT, installs Linux on it, and writes a Bash script to fly it into the Dubai tower. :p
     
  12. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #12
    You won't get a license to fly your missile through any airspace. If you own a farm and want to fly your modified flying-missile-boeing into your own barn, go knock yourself out.
     
  13. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #13
    sudo kill -9 666
     
  14. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #14
    "Dude, you got root on that 747? COOL!"
     
  15. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #15
    I think that this will end like DRM on Audio CD's did.
     
  16. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #16
    You can call me...The Administrator.

    :slides on sunglasses:
     
  17. lostngone macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

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    #17
    The Experimental/Amateur air rating certificate wave many of those requirements.
    You do know there are privately owned Migs in the United States even as current as the Mig-29.

    Airplanes that have Experimental rating can and do fly in and out of non-private strips all the time. Are you condoning the U.S. Government killing law abiding citizens?
     
  18. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    Jan 19, 2014
    #18
    Think we're talking past each other here. I was responding to someone's claim of an unfettered (no restrictions or oversight) right to modify a large aircraft. That makes issue of license moot. Furthermore, my response contemplated inadvertently, not purposefully, turning it into a missile.

    ...adding, I think your response was tongue in cheek, to which I gave a serious response. :)
     
  19. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #19
    There's a guy around here who owns and flies a MiG-15 at airshows and parades.

    That thing is tiny, imagine a VW bus with wings. But in it's own way, it's cooler than a F-15.
     
  20. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    Austin, USA
    #20
    I agree that Honda should not be responsible when you blow up your engine in your Civic you riced up. That being said, I believe the onus is on the insurance company to determine whether or not cars should be modded in their policy.
     
  21. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    Oct 27, 2009
    #21
    Manufactures make simple stupid decisions. When I had a VW Passat 2006, I could not turn the day time running lights off while engine was running, even if the gear was in park. I changed that quickly. It get's old fast when your just sitting, and car after car pulls up beside you cause they think your going to get out the space.

    Also had it chip tuned and noticed about 5mpg better and better automatic shifting. I can understand the gripe manufactures have about that, cause it can make the progress of wear n tear happen quicker.


    Would love to see the study behind this, if there is any.
     
  22. lostngone macrumors demi-god

    lostngone

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    #22
    Car functions should be broken up into 2 completely seperate subsystems. Basic Life/safety functions and non Life/safety functions. The Life/safety functions should be locked down, hardened and read only(if any) by other systems. The major problem of doing this is, of course the cost.

    I am not trying to stop gear-heads from modifying their rides. I am more worried about in 10-15 years time some script kiddy figuring out he can cause all Toyotas, Fords or Hyundais within a 2 mile radius to slam on their brakes or accelerate out of control.
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #23
    Completely agreed. You should be able to take your car to any garage to be repaired.
     
  24. aerok macrumors 65816

    aerok

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    Oct 29, 2011
    #24
    That is how I imagine the Apple Car.

    Non user replaceable battery powered engine and battery. Must take it an Apple Garage to change the car carpet or change lights.
     
  25. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #25
    Some of the bright sparks out there would release a jailbreak for the iCar.
     

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