Like I Needed Another Reason to Support Gay Rights

bobber205

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Nov 15, 2005
2,182
0
Oregon
Few things about the state of our society makes me madder than the refusal to support equality with regards to homosexuals. Besides being a decent human being, here's the reasoning I try to use with my friends that aren't exactly keen on the whole idea.

For the first time, I've entered in the "game of love" and man, it's the hardest most painful as well as most fun thing I've ever done. For years I didn't actively avoid it but also didn't pursue it like I probably should. A relationship with another person that isn't in your family is a incredibly complicated and confusing affair as I am finding out rapidly.

But I cannot even BEGIN to imagine what this would be like if I knew that the person I was attracted was someone I "shouldn't" be attracted to. I don't know about you guys, but when I fell in love with this girl, there wasn't any kind of "choice" involved. There was no "choice" I had to make to find her the most attractive human being I have ever seen. There was no "choice" I had to make to want to do anything for her, even at my own expense.

But what if the relationship that may be beginning was considered "wrong" or "improper" by anyone? I can't imagine how much pressure that would put on me and what kind of additional stress I would be under. What if my parents didn't even approve of the feelings I had, regardless if they liked the girl or not?

It's truly disgusting that there are people out there not willing to treat homosexuals as they are heterosexuals. It makes me sick inside. Jesus Christ, they're people just like you and me. It's just as sickening as the times when interracial dating wasn't "allowed".

Can someone explain to me how it's even POSSIBLE to think this way?
 

TuffLuffJimmy

macrumors G3
Apr 6, 2007
8,989
25
Portland, OR
People have all sorts of prejudices for one reason or another. To over simplify and assume that everyone should be as open minded toward one group as oneself is very narrow. I'm sure I have my own share of prejudices against others, that might not be as obvious as homophobia, but everyone has their problems.

While I do agree that there is no logical explanation for such discriminatory ideals I understand that some people just aren't like me.

It will take time and it will take some ground breaking people to get homosexuality to be as acceptable in our culture as heterosexuality, but maybe one day it will happen.
 

GeekLawyer

macrumors 68020
...It's truly disgusting that there are people out there not willing to treat homosexuals as they are heterosexuals. It makes me sick inside. Jesus Christ, they're people just like you and me. It's just as sickening as the times when interracial dating wasn't "allowed"...
Thank you for your support. Our community will never enjoy the full participation in society without the support of our heterosexual brothers and sisters. We're a small minority and our rights can be denied so easily at the ballot box. Time appears to be on our side as younger people are less hostile to the gay community.

Like I said: thank you. And tell a friend. :)
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
People have all sorts of prejudices for one reason or another. To over simplify and assume that everyone should be as open minded toward one group as oneself is very narrow. I'm sure I have my own share of prejudices against others, that might not be as obvious as homophobia, but everyone has their problems.

While I do agree that there is no logical explanation for such discriminatory ideals I understand that some people just aren't like me.

It will take time and it will take some ground breaking people to get homosexuality to be as acceptable in our culture as heterosexuality, but maybe one day it will happen.
As is obvious from your statements in another thread, that "ground breaking" person certainly won't be you. I really want to know why you find homophobia and discrimination acceptable.
 

Denarius

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2008
690
0
Gironde, France
As is obvious from your statements in another thread, that "ground breaking" person certainly won't be you. I really want to know why you find homophobia and discrimination acceptable.
With limited resources and an expanding global population, increasing numbers of homosexuals may prove to be a good thing.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
While I do agree that there is no logical explanation for such discriminatory ideals I understand that some people just aren't like me.
I think this is actually not only incorrect, but also dangerous.

As an analogy, think about the kids (usually white) who talk about seeing the world as color blind. What they unintentionally mean is that they welcome everyone who isn't white (and is white, but not "like" them) to act just like them. That's not racial progress. All of our cultures are continuously changing, but my culture will always inform who I am in some way or another. Even if I act pretty white (srsly... I mean, if you cross-reference me against stuffwhitepeoplelike... scary :eek: ), I'm not.

In this vein, I think it's important to recognize that discrimination may not follow from any "logical" rules of ethics, but it is an unsurprising and natural tendency in human behavior. That doesn't make it right. People engage in murder in every known culture at every time in human history and pre-history. We choose to reject this behavior and try to stamp it out. There are many things we do as a culture that are "nonsensical" in one way or another -- it isn't profitable to make accommodations to hire disabled people. There was probably something lost at all-boys exclusive universities when they let girls in. Even abolishing slavery was not particularly the most practical or logical solution to a problem.

We did these things because, according to our moral beliefs as a larger cultural entity (in these cases, the US, but also in the broader sense of the global human culture), these things were the right thing to do.

Giving rights to gay people is the right thing to do. It may not be natural, logical, practical, or easy. I don't pretend that it is, but I also don't care that it's not. It's the right thing to do, and in my belief, which is belief, we will see ourselves as a better people when we've done it.
 

Queso

Suspended
Mar 4, 2006
11,832
7
With limited resources and an expanding global population, increasing numbers of homosexuals may prove to be a good thing.
The percentage of gay human beings in the total population is very unlikely to increase. All that can change is the amount of closet cases who pretend to be other than they are.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
The percentage of gay human beings in the total population is very unlikely to increase. All that can change is the amount of closet cases who pretend to be other than they are.
There are probably some epigenetic triggers that can vary the rate of homosexuality a little bit (not like this is really an important issue). A comparable example of how this works would be Darwin's bird example -- the birds that were mostly white went to being mostly black when the environment changed in a very short period of time (a couple of generations). Gene selection can't work that fast, but epigenetics can. So, similarly, there are probably environmental variables of some kind that govern the stable rate of homosexuality that is most adaptive.

P.S., I haven't used this in a while, but it seems appropriate to the conversation above. :D

 

Queso

Suspended
Mar 4, 2006
11,832
7
So, similarly, there are probably environmental variables of some kind that govern the stable rate of homosexuality that is most adaptive.
Like an overbearing mother and absent father? :D

(Sorry, I know you have a serious point there)
 

Denarius

macrumors 6502a
Feb 5, 2008
690
0
Gironde, France
The percentage of gay human beings in the total population is very unlikely to increase. All that can change is the amount of closet cases who pretend to be other than they are.
It's definitely true that social pressures obfuscate tracking the proportion of society that is homosexual. I tend to suspect a lot more human beings have homosexual leanings than we realise currently. We've bred dogs for many years and we've seen an awful lot of same-sex humping among them as well when none of the bitches have actually been in season.
 

Queso

Suspended
Mar 4, 2006
11,832
7
Dogs humping each other is part of the mechanism for defining the pack hierarchy. They're not really trying to have sex with each other, just simulating it to show dominance.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
It's definitely true that social pressures obfuscate tracking the proportion of society that is homosexual. I tend to suspect a lot more human beings have homosexual leanings than we realise currently. We've bred dogs for many years and we've seen an awful lot of same-sex humping among them as well when none of the bitches have actually been in season.
Just go on craigslist. Lots of guys on the DL.
 

SwiftLives

macrumors 65816
Dec 7, 2001
1,339
240
Charleston, SC
People have all sorts of prejudices for one reason or another. To over simplify and assume that everyone should be as open minded toward one group as oneself is very narrow. I'm sure I have my own share of prejudices against others, that might not be as obvious as homophobia, but everyone has their problems.

While I do agree that there is no logical explanation for such discriminatory ideals I understand that some people just aren't like me.

It will take time and it will take some ground breaking people to get homosexuality to be as acceptable in our culture as heterosexuality, but maybe one day it will happen.
So...you're basically saying that by being open minded toward homosexuals we're actually being closed-minded toward bigots?

Name one major social change in our society that has resulted from people sitting around saying, "maybe one day..."

Seriously. Just one.