Lord's Reform misery

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by niuniu, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #1
    It will be a new low for Brit politics when all 3 parties have reform in their manifesto yet can't manage to get it done. Bunch of useless, self-serving career politicians.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jul/09/tory-rebels-letter-lords-reform?newsfeed=true

    We will see later, but it does all look like it will fall flat on its face.



    [Non-Brit version: all 3 political parties are going to vote on reforming the unelected second chamber in parliament.]
     
  2. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #2
    If we're honest, this is Cleggs 15 minutes of fame. Just like the voting reform, its more to show that he's achieved something as his time as deputy PM
     
  3. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #3
    Let him have all the fame he wants, as long as we can get rid of those throwbacks. :mad:
     
  4. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #4
    No, I think it is more Nick Clegg's attempt to deliver something from the Lib Dem agenda while he is in Govt; remember, the Tories shafted him during the referendum on electoral reform - the intended reform itself - or, some version of same - was (and still would be) a long overdue change.

    Ditto with any proposed changes to the House of Lords. Apart from Tony Blair's changes in 1997-8, the last major reform to the composition and powers of the House of Lords goes back to the period just before the First World War.

    Agreed.
     
  5. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #5
    A poll from last week shows Brits generally aren't interested in political news - 37% compared to Americans at 63%.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18741468

    So it's easy for politicians to forever hide behind the shield that, ' the public aren't interested in Lord's reform'. All the while scratching their own backs at our expense.

    This needs to be forced through whether the public are interested or not.
     
  6. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Lol I think it will be- those hereditary peers aren't going to just rubber stamp their own removal, are they? Good thing we have a parliament act :D
     
  7. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #7
    Ding dong, the Clegg is dead. His last chip with the electorate fumbled and lost. He is a useless opportunistic blouse and I'm tempted to feel sorry for him (he is still ideologically right), but I can't. He took Lib Dem votes and jumped into bed with the Tories. Delivered most of what they wanted, and nothing they the Libs wanted.

    What a deal. All for a taste of the government bench.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/aug/06/nick-clegg-blocks-boundary-changes

    It'll make a nice chapter in revised PPE textbooks on q̶u̶i̶s̶l̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ coalition governments and serve a nice warning to the next generation of politicians.
     
  8. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #8
    Nick Clegg he was the one who broke his promise on tuition fees?
     
  9. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #9
    He's well hated for that over here. And the NHS cuts, police force cuts, wrecking schools (we now have creationist schools approved under the new scheme and Clegg is an atheist), benefit cuts etc

    Pretty much everything a Lib Dem stands against he helped deliver :confused:

    They haven't got a strong alternative candidate for Lib Dem leader else there would be more noise about a leadership contest. Think they're stuck with Clegg for now.
     
  10. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #10
    What a peculiar reflection of New Zealand politics right about now. Even our Labour Party smells like greased hands. In fact, the only party that seems to give a crap is the Greens, and that's actually quite depressing because they would be considered a bit extreme here.
     
  11. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Yes- about two months after he promised he wouldn't. He lost my sympathy after that. He's just a spineless politician.
     
  12. garybUK Guest

    garybUK

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    #12
    I don't think it's a bad thing, the public can't even elect in a decent party!!
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #13
    The UK green party is the one that tries the hardest here too. On the other side Farage of UKIP seems to be fairly competent as well.

    ----------

    How can we?
     
  14. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #14
    How can we? In terms of choice, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place:(
     
  15. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #15
    After the last election why on earth didn't the Lib Dems point out that Labour was the second most popular party, and the it was incumbent on Labour and Conservatives to create a national unity government. They then could have sat back and watched the fur fly, pointing out all the time the weaknesses of extreme political views. Instead, Clegg wanted his two minutes of fame and the Lib Dems are now so discredited they will take a generation to recover. Meanwhile, the UK will be at the mercy of Labour and the Conservatives, becoming more polarized each day.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    I'm ignorant. For the OP, can you sum up the issues involved? Thanks. :)
     
  17. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #17
    Ah well UK politics is a much milder and less flamboyant affair than the US. Not surprised anyone overseas wouldn't be aware :p

    It boils down to..

    We have 2 Houses where government try to pass laws.

    House of Commons (elected) & House of Lords (not elected)

    The elected politicians will vote on a Bill and if it passes it will go to the next House (the unelected House of Lords).

    The unelected Lords can then delay the Bill, or even send it back pushing for changes to it.

    ------------

    The problem is a democratic one. Basicially we have people who are often incredibly wealthy, with personal interests, often unliked and could never be elected influencing policy and law.

    What we want to do is get rid of them and get some elected guys in. Perhaps guys with actual expertise in science, finance etc. To make them useful and democratic.


    That's the bulk of the issue. Problem is, reforming that isn't easy as the public really don't care about constitutional issues and many Conservative politicians don't want it changed (to protect their own interests and political masters).


    (That's the clean version, dirty version goes into some of the slime that line the House of Lords)
     
  18. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #18
    very well "simple" explanation there^

    I'll add that the House of Lords aren't affiliated to any party as a Lord- but by nature, many are conservatives
     
  19. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #19
    You say that like there is a decent party?
     
  20. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #20
    Thanks for that excellent explanation. How does one find oneself a member of the House of Lords- who do you have to know/pay/have intimate relations with? ;) This sounds like a problem for democracy.
     
  21. calb macrumors 6502

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    #21
    The problem was that the proposed bill was a farce and nothing more than a token for the Lib Dems to wave around in 2015. Come 2015 we'll hopefully have a decisive majority government, and recommendations can be considered and acted upon. Sensible reforms can be made without making the revised chamber worse than its predecessor.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
  23. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #23
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    No, but that wasn't the question asked ;).

    Maybe I should have done though, but I don't actually agree with a substantial portion of their policies, I just think they are much better people than our current leaders.
     
  25. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #25
    I didn't either admittedly. Shame the Greens don't get any media coverage, reckon they could do well if they did. They should in principle take the great majority of disgruntled Lib Dem voters at the next election.
     

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