Loughner wants to plead guilty to Giffords shooting

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    ...at least, according to sources.

    Frankly, as long as we are following due process, I don't care if this is a calculated move on the part of Loughner or his lawyers. Just lock him up and throw away the key already.
     
  2. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #2
    When you shoot a bunch of people in front of a bunch of other people, there's not much point to pleading not guilty.
     
  3. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #3
    Unless it's "not guilty by reason of insanity". :)
     
  4. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #4
    No, we must have him executed! Because, you know, we saw how much that helped Timothy McVeigh's victims. :rolleyes:
     
  5. citizenzen, Aug 5, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Which is why I'd change it to "guilty, but insane".
     
  6. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #6
    1. What knowledge, anecdotal or otherwise, do you have that Timothy McVeigh's execution did or did not help McVeigh's victims? Or are you suggesting that all of McVeigh's victims died? Or are you just conflating in a flippant anti-death penalty rant knowing the PRSI won't call you out on it?

    2. Assuming knowledge thereof, what does the status of Timothy McVeigh's victims' mental state post-execution have to do with Giffords' shooter suspect desiring to enter a plea of guilty?
     
  7. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #7
    I would have no problem seeing him executed.
     
  8. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #8
    My (limited) understanding is that plea is very limited in scope and would not be applicable.

    Anyone working for his defence is aware that he's not seeing the outside world ever again and that if he goes for a trial, even if he's never executed he'll get to live on death row for the rest of his life.
     
  9. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #9
    There is if you want the death penalty, personally I'd prefer that over life imprisonment, but that's me.
     
  10. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #10
    I assume if he wanted to cut a deal for guilty and death penalty they'd be happy to cut that deal.
     
  11. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Only you'd be waiting your turn for the rest of your life, since it takes so damn long
     
  12. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #12
    That's EXACTLY the problem with the death penalty.

    Americans are too reluctant to dole it out.

    :( :( :(
     
  13. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #13
    Were you a victim of Timothy McVeigh? Are you the family member of someone who died due to Timothy McVeigh?

    While research indicates that the death penalty may actually prolong suffering for a victim's family, I imagine it is a highly individualized issue.
     
  14. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #14
    I imagine it's more due to pressure from the private firms that run prisons if anything. The death penalty is not profitable for them unless inmates languish on death row making them money for years and years.

    There's something deeply wrong with the whole judicial and political system in the states whereby there's considerable pressure to keep jails full and this really needs to be addressed.

    That said I do not support the death penalty, though I wouldn't be against it being something you can opt for personally.
     
  15. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #15
    ... And he does just that.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...a-shooting-suspect-pleads-guilty-to-killing-6

    Is it just me, or in looking at their mugshots, do Loughner and Holmes look related?

    BL.
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #17
    I was appointed to represent a guy convicted of attempted murder. He was at the super-max prison; I had never been there before. They were serious when it came to security, so I was nervous before I ever walked into the room. They put me into a tiny room with a metal table, two chairs, and a massive steel door with a tiny window. A few minutes later my client walks in, they shut and lock the door, and leave me alone with him. We had never met, and I'm like 5'5 on a good day.

    Another time, I represented a guy who was facing involuntary committment because he was "allegedly" suicidal. He was a former navy seal, and was apparently unhinged enough that they had 3-4 big guys in a room with him at all times in case they needed to subdue him (again). I got there, said I was appointed as his lawyer, and everyone left the room and locked the door behind them. No cuffs. Nothing. At one point when I asked him if he was a danger to himself, he said he could do whatever he wanted so fast I wouldn't have a chance. No one would. He was just sad, we talked it out, it ended up ok.

    Laughner, Holmes... there are some seriously scary people out there, and most of them are represented by public defenders who don't get paid enough. I'm shocked there aren't more cases of violence against lawyers.

    One of my clients shot his father a couple times with a shotgun and was facing murder charges. I refused to allow the guards to leave me alone with him. I had a guy charged with driving on a revoked license. Scariest guy I have ever been around. He had just been released from a 60 year murder 1 and absolutely did not want to go back to prison.

    Anyway, scary defendant eyes still freak me out.
     
  18. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #18
    Don't blame you. I guess that's why the best public defender I've seen was Matt Murdock. At least he didn't have to look into his defendant's eyes.

    You have my respect.

    BL.
     
  19. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #19
    What an awful person. I'm glad they aren't pushing for the death penalty. The quicker a life imprisonment sentence is delivered and this guy is locked away the better. Let's get him out of public light so all of the victims do not have this thrown in their face through appeal after appeal. What an awful, awful situation.
     
  20. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    A reporter friend of mine told me after years of working across the African continent in war, the scariest person he ever met was a 14-year old boy, who drunk and high on ka'at demanded his "papers" by jabbed an AK against his neck.

    Per today's agreement, there will be no appeal or counter. Instead, Loughner is going to accept the judge's sentencing.
     
  21. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #21
    From my limited experience with people who have been to war and/or killed during a crime, there seems to be something that changes in a person after a killing. Something more than just guilt or whatever. It's almost like there is a change in the brain related to the trauma.
     

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