M1 Air throttles to a maximum of 4W during a game

[Geoca]

Hello,

I have noticed via powermetrics in terminal that the Package Power throttles from 10-11W to 4W after around 10 minutes in a game.

The temperatures of the CPU reach around 97-98C when it starts throttling, and when it finally reaches the 4W mark, CPU temp drops to around 70C and stays there.

The Cinebench R23 score from a cold boot after a 10 minute run is 6800 points.

This is very frustrating because a while back it didn't have this behaviour, now games after around 10-15 minutes have a bad framerate.

I did mention in another thread that i did drop the laptop a few weeks ago and now it has this dent: https://tinyimg.io/i/IIz1Jn7.jpeg

I'm trying to understand what is wrong. Could it be a short? Could it be something that misplaced in the heatsink when it took the fall? The apple diagnostics tool comes out fine.

Any ideas? What kind of FPS do you guys get in games and for how long?

Thank you

 

[leman]

If the throttling behavior changed after the fall, it would make me suspicious whether some internal damage has occurred. From other experiences the MBA should be able to sustain around 7-10 watts under load pretty much indefinitely...

 

[jdb8167]

If the throttling behavior changed after the fall, it would make me suspicious whether some internal damage has occurred. From other experiences the MBA should be able to sustain around 7-10 watts under load pretty much indefinitely...

This is my experience as well. Once the CPU temp is around 97° C the normal power shown in powermetrics stays between 7-10 W.

The fact that your temperature is reducing to 70° C is a concern. I don’t think that is normal.

 

[Geoca]

Is there anything that I can do to check? What kind of damage could it have, during normal usage, like browsing Netflix and such the temps are 35-40C and stay there.

Also does that dent mean the warranty is void if I bring it to a store?

 

[AltecX]

From that small DMG i can't imagine anything that would change the throttle profile. Its not impacting airflow at all. MAYBE a sensor on the board was damaged? but that would be some unlikely odds.

 

[Geoca]

I plan to take it at the store for them to check it. But I’m worried that they will either say that nothing is wrong (because it works fine, no battery drain or other strange behavior) or they will say that they have to replace the logic board without even looking at it (because of the small dent).

Initial thought was that some heat sink got moved and that doesn’t allow optimal cooling.

Worse case scenario is that there is a short somewhere…

Edit: I’ve tried another game, WoW. There it throttles at around 5-5.5-6w after a while. Can’t really understand what could be wrong.

 

[Queen6]

It's summer and the Air is passively cooled, just a thought. Just a couple more degrees might be the tipping point for the Air to throttle down. There's a similar post on the forum where this seems to be the case.

Q-6

 

[jdb8167]

It's summer and the Air is passively cooled, just a thought. Just a couple more degrees might be the tipping point for the Air to throttle down. There's a similar post on the forum where this seems to be the case.

Q-6

True, I did my testing in an air conditioned office with the ambient temperature around 72-74° F.

 

[scaramoosh]

Just get a thermal pad, open it up and it stops the throttling.

 

[Queen6]

Hello,

I have noticed via powermetrics in terminal that the Package Power throttles from 10-11W to 4W after around 10 minutes in a game.

The temperatures of the CPU reach around 97-98C when it starts throttling, and when it finally reaches the 4W mark, CPU temp drops to around 70C and stays there.

The Cinebench R23 score from a cold boot after a 10 minute run is 6800 points.

This is very frustrating because a while back it didn't have this behaviour, now games after around 10-15 minutes have a bad framerate.

I did mention in another thread that i did drop the laptop a few weeks ago and now it has this dent: https://tinyimg.io/i/IIz1Jn7.jpeg

I'm trying to understand what is wrong. Could it be a short? Could it be something that misplaced in the heatsink when it took the fall? The apple diagnostics tool comes out fine.

Any ideas? What kind of FPS do you guys get in games and for how long?

Thank you

True, I did my testing in an air conditioned office with the ambient temperature around 72-74° F.

I own an M1 MBP, also own a passively cooled 12" Retina Macbook on macOS 11.5.1, it thermal throttles under full load, however it will maintain the CPU temperature in the high 90 degrees centigrade region.

Mac's have and utilise multiple sensors to manage internal temperature so @Geoca Air may have been throttling down for other reasons relates to high temp, such a the battery, power supply etc. Apple's diagnostics should reveal if a sensor has failed.

How to run diagnostics

Use Apple Diagnostics to test your Mac - Apple Support

Apple Diagnostics, formerly known as Apple Hardware Test, can check your Mac for hardware issues.

support.apple.com

Q-6

 

[Geoca]

I forgot to mention that i ran the apple diagnostics a few times already and it always says that everything is fine. I also installed TG Pro and i am monitoring the temps with that.

For example, now, while i am browsing, discord, mails and such the CPU is 38C, battery is 34C (highest temp i see from that long list of sensors is 42C now) . Battery life is normal.

Would you mind installing the TG Pro trial and check what it says at the GPU temps?

 

[sunny5]

Not sure about the damage from the drop but it's TOTALLY normal.

First, M1 MBA does not have a cooler with a fan and therefore, the cooling system isn't good. The heat won't gonna disappear unless MBA throttle itself in order to drop the temperature. This is a normal thing for all computers.

Second, play game is kinda heavy stuff. I dont know which games you are playing but gaming require heavy uses on both CPU and GPU so it's quite obvious that M1 MBA gets a lot of heat.

Third, M1 is still hot to use for heavy stuff especially without a fan. Yes, there isn't any laptops with only a heatsink cause x86 CPUs are very hot to use. But still, M1 will be hotter eventually.

 

[Queen6]

I forgot to mention that i ran the apple diagnostics a few times already and it always says that everything is fine. I also installed TG Pro and i am monitoring the temps with that.

For example, now, while i am browsing, discord, mails and such the CPU is 38C, battery is 34C (highest temp i see from that long list of sensors is 42C now) . Battery life is normal.

Would you mind installing the TG Pro trial and check what it says at the GPU temps?

You'll be better served by another user with an Air especially if you have the base model as it has a different GPU configuration versus the actively cooled M1 MBP (7 cores versus 8 cores). After 10-15 minutes the Air's heatsink will likely be thermally saturated with the CPU/GPU having no alternative other than to throttle down.

As temperature escalates with the M1 MBP the fan will spool up reducing temps and rendering any comparison void. Lot of other factors to consider such as macOS updates and or updates to the game. I'd also look raise the rear of the notebook to help with heat dissipation and general airflow. Being flat on the desk only tends to result in heat being reflected back to the notebook making matters worse.

FWIW M1 13" MBP 8GB base model, macOS 11.5.1, Cinebench R23; 30 minute run, ambient temp 26C, max temp 92C, max fan 4.5K RPM, max battery temp 32C, scored 7814 pts.


Monitored by Macs Fan Control, fan set to Apple default setting.

Q-6

 

[Geoca]

Not sure about the damage from the drop but it's TOTALLY normal.

First, M1 MBA does not have a cooler with a fan and therefore, the cooling system isn't good. The heat won't gonna disappear unless MBA throttle itself in order to drop the temperature. This is a normal thing for all computers.

Second, play game is kinda heavy stuff. I dont know which games you are playing but gaming require heavy uses on both CPU and GPU so it's quite obvious that M1 MBA gets a lot of heat.

Third, M1 is still hot to use for heavy stuff especially without a fan. Yes, there isn't any laptops with only a heatsink cause x86 CPUs are very hot to use. But still, M1 will be hotter eventually.

If this was something that it did from the beginning, I wouldn’t be concerned. But it’s something that it’s started doing recently. I don’t know if it matters that inside the house are 29-30C, but something seems fishy.

 

[Queen6]

If this was something that it did from the beginning, I wouldn’t be concerned. But it’s something that it’s started doing recently. I don’t know if it matters that inside the house are 29-30C, but something seems fishy.

This combined with gaming on a passively cooled notebook. Gaming can put a lot of stress on both CPU & GPU which will induce throttling. The Air has no way to rapidly dissipate so much heat, try elevating the rear and use a USB fan to blow air across the upper section of the keyboard close to the display. Might just help to regain some framerate...

At 30C ambient your approaching what Apple considers to be the upper limit for operation. which translates into a disclaimer for potential reduced performance and or battery longevity.

Q-6

 

[sunny5]

If this was something that it did from the beginning, I wouldn’t be concerned. But it’s something that it’s started doing recently. I don’t know if it matters that inside the house are 29-30C, but something seems fishy.

Your house temperature is kinda high and therefore, your M1 MBA will throttle faster especially since M1 MBA does not have a fan to remove the heat from inside.

Again, your house temperature is high and M1 MBA's cooling system is not good especially for gaming purpose.

 

[Geoca]

I sure hope something is not messed up with the logic board or sensors or battery.

 

[CWallace]

I don’t know if it matters that inside the house are 29-30C, but something seems fishy.

That probably does matter as others have noted the Air can only passively radiate the M1's heat so the warmer the ambient temperature, the less effective that radiation is.

My 2017 iMac 5K fan used to never go above 2700RPM as our temps were generally in the low 20s, but here in Seattle we have been seeing temps in the mid-to-high 30s and even hit 40C a few days and my fans would ramp to 3600RPM to maintain a similar temperature profile.

 

[deeddawg]

Is there anything that I can do to check? What kind of damage could it have, during normal usage, like browsing Netflix and such the temps are 35-40C and stay there.

Also does that dent mean the warranty is void if I bring it to a store?

Warranties (in the US at least) aren't a monolithic thing existing in binary states of valid vs void.

What they are is a commitment to fix, within the warranty period, anything that'd covered which fails due to a manufacturing fault. They won't fix stuff that is caused by the consumer (unless you'd purchased the accident protection).

So...

Since this behavior started after you'd dropped the system, it's possible the issue is because of something internal that was caused by the drop. That would likely not be covered by the warranty - since you were the cause - but sometimes they'll be nice and cover it.

Either way it sounds like it's time to have a technician have a look inside the computer.

 

[Geoca]

I was hoping to get some possible insight on what could be wrong (if anything) that can cause this behaviour.

 

[mi7chy]

Mine throttles down to ~10W under sustained load. Maybe something on yours got dislodged. Unless you have AC+ which covers accidental damage then the only way to find out is to open it up and inspect. Refer to the thermal mod YouTube videos to understand the layout.

 

[Queen6]

I was hoping to get some possible insight on what could be wrong (if anything) that can cause this behaviour.

Many have said; it's likely the combination of usage and high ambient temperatures. You can confirm this by using the MacBook Air in a cooler environment with the rear raised and same workload/game, if it still throttles then you know something else is wrong. Then you'll need to speak with Apple as there is little else that you can do.

M1 Air has 15 temperature sensors, nor does the system only rely on the CPU/GPU temperature to control the machines temperature. If the computer is too hot the only reaction the Air's cooling solution can perform is to reduce load on the CPU/GPU.


Q-6

 

[Geoca]

Thanks!

If you have the M1 air would you mind posting your temps from doing basic tasks like browsing and listening to music?

Does the case just above the function keys, mostly above f5-f6 warm up a bit? (Not hot, just warm)

is it also a bit warm on the bottom of the case on the same area?

 

[Queen6]

Thanks!

If you have the M1 air would you mind posting your temps from doing basic tasks like browsing and listening to music?

Does the case just above the function keys, mostly above f5-f6 warm up a bit? (Not hot, just warm)

is it also a bit warm on the bottom of the case on the same area?

I have an M1 MBP so no can do. Most of the heat from the Air is exhausted just above the function keys so it should be warm to the touch when in use.

TBH Mac's are not well matched for 3D gaming as that how Apple designs them. The Air models without an active cooling fan least of all as they have no way to cool the CPU/GPU efficiently.

Q-6

 

[Geoca]

I did an experiment. I turned on the AC and set it to 21C. After 1hr (when room temp was constant at 21C) i started the Cinebench R23 benchmark. The 30 minute result was at 6700 points. When the room is 29-30C the 30 minute test is at 5400 points.

I also observed that the powermetrics tool reported a 10W draw even during the late stages of the benchmark.

I haven't gamed on it because the room felt too cold (it's funny how it feels cold in the summer at 21C and when it's winter 21C feel warm).

I'm starting to think that the room temperature actually makes a big difference, but i still need to do a few experiments.