MAC BackUp Formats – Whole External Driven And Not An Image File

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Oka, May 4, 2013.

  1. Oka macrumors member

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    #1
    New here! Just got a first Apple computer, besides the wife’s iPhone and iPad. Actually, the MacBook Pro is really for the little one who’s starting school this coming school year. However, I have to be sharing it with her – I like the unit. I am now being ‘sold’ to MAC’s.

    I did a search here on backups. I asked the Apple technician about backing up the system, and was told about the Time Machine. Here, I learnt about other third-party softwares that are also good.

    According to all the info I so far have, I realize I have to dedicate a drive (external) just for Time Machine.

    Then I read about SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner for cloning and start-up’ing’ if need be. I like what both options offer.

    Here’s my issue. With IBM, I create images of my desktops and notebook, to two separate external drives (Acronis and Easeus). In this drive, I have folders with names of the individual system and store the image file there. The created file is a single file I can copy or move to another location. And on this backup drive, I have other video files I transferred there for backups. I see MAC don’t work that way – backing to a file; instead it “selfishly” takes over the whole drive (dedicated).

    In contrary to what I was told, on this forum, KevinC867 mentioned about creating partitions on the external drive for both Time Machine and cloning. If that’s so, great! If so, then, I should be able to have three partitions – Time Machine, Cloning, Personal Files (on same external backup drive). So wish both backup formats would be as image files.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. johnnnw macrumors 65816

    johnnnw

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    Feb 7, 2013
    #2
    You can definitely have separate partitions with different formats, there was actually a thread about that on here today. A few recommended against it but many people do it without problems.

    Just format each partition appropriately for what you need. For the Time Machine you'll want a Extended Journaled format.
     
  3. Oka, May 4, 2013
    Last edited: May 4, 2013

    Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #3
    Great! Nice to know. I kinda :( of purchasing a whole drive just to do one backup.

    Two questions though. What would be the difference between the "Extended Journaled format" and the NTFS Logic or Extended formats (if you would know). Second question would be, is the backups in a file (single) format?

    If this is the case, then I might as well go for a larger size backup drive.
     
  4. hallux macrumors 68020

    hallux

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    #4
    OS Extended Journaled is a Mac format while NTFS is a Windows format that OS X can read but not write.

    I have a 2 TB WD My Passport external HDD that's split in 2 like you want to do. I have it split as 1.5 TB/500 GB. The 1.5 TB partition is in Mac OS Extended for my Time Machine backups while the other partition is in MS-DOS (FAT) so that it can be read from and written to by both Mac and Windows computers.
     
  5. Oka, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013

    Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #5
    Just checked my partition manager (Easeus Partitition Master) and found out it can create partions in the following formats: FAT, FAT32, NTFS, EXT2 and EXT3. What do you use to get the 'OS Extended Journaled' format? Guess whatever you use would still be able to create a NTFS format on the same drive in the same partition session?

    Also, I realized some USB External Hard Drives are specifically made for MAC. If so, how come it can be added a NTFS partition?

    Thanks.
     
  6. snaky69 macrumors 603

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    #6
    External hard drives, or any hardware "for mac" is 100% pure marketing apart from some very specific products. Any hard drive can be formatted to be compatible with a Mac. Same goes with RAM upgrades, there is no such thing as "Mac Memory".

    I've never heard of Easeus Partition Master in my life, if that is a windows program, it will not be able to create an OS X compatible partition as Windows cannot read nor write such a partition natively.

    You want to be using OS X's very own partitioning tool: Disk Utility.
     
  7. hallux macrumors 68020

    hallux

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    #7
    What snaky said. I used my Disk Utility on my Mac to create both partitions on my external HDD.
     
  8. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #8
    snaky69, sure you are a MAC user so Easeus won't be known. It's been one of the best softwares I have ever used - very stable.

    Where is the "Disk Utility" you mentioned; the two words are kinda generic. Thanks for your comment on MAC specific drives; nice to know.

    Now, with the Disk Utility you mentioned, guess it would also create a NTFS partition for Windows, right? I would like to use the external drive for both MAC and Windows if I can and which would determine the size of drive to get.
     
  9. johnnnw macrumors 65816

    johnnnw

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    #9
    Disk Utility is the actual name of the application. Search in Spotlight for it or click the Launchpad > Other > Disk Utility. From there you can do the partitions.

    This video will be extremely helpful:

    Seems you can't embed videos here, so heres the link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-h0SuG2Mj4
     
  10. KevinC867 macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    As John mentioned, Disk Utility is on your system, probably as "Macintosh HD/Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility".

    You should check out software from Paragon (www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-hfs-bundle/) They sell drivers which provide full NTFS read/write access on Macs and and Mac HFS support on PC's. With that software, you can pick up pretty much any hard drive and move it between your Mac and your PC.
     
  11. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #11
    One last question, is any of you using a drive with both MAC and Windows partitions on it? If yes, any serious issue that would warrant not to even try it at all. I plan on using it strictly for backups for MAC and Windows.
     
  12. KevinC867 macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Yes, I have HDs with both Mac HFS+ and Windows NTFS partitions. No problem.
     
  13. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #13
    Mmmm, nice to now. Now I will feel comfortable creating both partitions.

    I sure appreciate all the help you all have giving me on my first post. Good lead on me to enjoy the MAC world - am loving it. Sure I'll be back for more questions.

    Thanks again everyone, very well appreciated!
    :D
     
  14. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #14
    Back again on software update. I just spoke with a Paragon technician and I believe I should get the 3-in-1 Mac Bundle. Why? This version has the capability of re-distribute (resizing) the MAC/Windows partions at a latter time. Don't know why the 2-in-1 version should not do it or even the Lite version of it. O well! I need to be able to resize the partion sizes as need be after the fact.
     
  15. KevinC867, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013

    KevinC867 macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    I don't think you need the 3rd piece of the 3-in-1 bundle: CampTune X. That only seems to be useful to manage the BootCamp partition size. I'm not sure if you are even using BootCamp (the facility to run Windows completely natively from a partition on your Mac's hard drive). However, if you are, I think the BootCamp partition has to be on your boot drive, and I thought you were using the Paragon software to manage an external backup drive.
     
  16. hallux macrumors 68020

    hallux

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  17. Oka, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013

    Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #17
    I think the best way would be to tell you what I have and you could tell me the best way to approach my situation(s).

    DEVICES:
    I have two notebooks with Windows 7 (dual-booting Windows 8), four desktops with various Windows versions, MacBook Pro, three external USB drives. All of which run Windows except the MacBook Pro.

    MANAGEMENT:
    I use one USB drive to back up all my Windows devices, and store in the fire safe. I use another for same backup which sits around the compter area. Now I have a Mac, I would have to do backups for it. So instead of getting a dedicated external drive for it, it would be more practical to share the Mac with Windows; to do this, I would just get a 3T external backup drive.

    COMMON PRACTICE:
    I have never partitioned an external USB drive (never needed to). Because I edit lots of HD videos, I sometime tend to need more space for my videos partition, so I use what I have to resize (re-distribute) the space and make the video partition larger; sometimes I shrink some partition sizes for other partition management I might have.

    CURRENT SITUATION:
    1. I need to get a 3T drive, partition it for use for Windows and Mac.
    2. I would like to be able to re-size any of the partitions at will if I ever need to.
    3. Be able to back up both Windows and Mac on this newly partitioned (dedicated) backup USB external drive.
    4. Very importantly, be able to create a Mac Rescue (Recovery) Disk for emergency.

    Since I am new to the Mac world, and you are very familiar with Mac, what would you recommend for me to get from Paragon that you think would work better for me. I am now at your mercy to help me out here.

    Thanks for your time.
     
  18. KevinC867 macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    I'm not sure I have a lot more to offer on this. I rarely try to resize partitions. I know that the native Windows and Mac tools (i.e. Disk Utility) can try to resize partitions, but may not always be successful. While the Paragon CampTune program sounds like it only addresses BootCamp partitions, it may be more general and for an extra $10 it's not a big risk.

    As far as the Mac backups themselves go, I really like having a partition for my Time Machine backup as well as a partition for a bootable clone backup. Time machine gives me the ability to recover a file which is accidentally deleted or mangled, while my SuperDuper clone gives me instant recovery from catastrophic disk failures. With a bootable clone, there is really no need for an additional recovery disk.

     
  19. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    May 4, 2013
    #19
    For the resizing issue, am sure I can do it if need be.

    You just got me educated on Mac backups. With what I've learnt and from the Apple Store techs, I thought the Time Machine backup is like an image of the MacBook, not as a file but as a replicated image of the MacBook, encrypted and saved for recovery. Did not know one can still restore indivitual files. Now, the SuperDuper clone, surely, with that, I sure don't need a Recovery Disk. That's really "super" for me to hear. This bring on another question. With an external drive with both Windows and Mac partitions, where would the Time Machine backup and SuperDuper backups saved? Oh, am so anxious to know this.
     
  20. glenthompson macrumors 68000

    glenthompson

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    #20
    I guess I'm a bit more anal about backups but I would never use a single drive for both cloned drives and time machine backups. If the drive fails, you've lost all backups. I maintain both cloned drives and time machine backups.

    With your kid using the computer there's a greater chance of data loss.
     
  21. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #21
    Truly said. I won't have both backups on the same drive for safety sake.

    This is my wish (just a wish)! I wished any Mac backup would be like the Windows where I can use either the two softwares I have to backup my OS partition to any drive as a single file with an extention. I can move this file to wherever I want to.

    With Mac, am trying not to dedicate a drive for backup. With a 500GB Mac hard drive, I can only now get either a 500GB, 1T, 2T, 3T, 4T etc of external drive. The first will be too small and the next, 1TB will be too large and a waste of space.

    Maybe am not asking the question correctly - sometime English gets me as a second language.

    Let's do it this way. Tell me what would be best to do with these:
    - Two 1T USB external drives.
    - To get a new 3T or 2T USB external drive.

    - Need to backup my windows machins.
    - For the Mac, need to make a Time Machine and SuperDuper (bootable) backups.

    Thanks.
     
  22. KevinC867, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013

    KevinC867 macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    The SuperDuper and Time Machine backups should each have their own partition. (HFS+ Journaled format). That makes at least three partitions on your drive, including the Windows NTFS partition. I have one 3TB drive with five different partitions. (Current computer's Time Machine Backup, last Computer's Time Machine Backup, current Clone, older clone, data partition).

    I keep all my media (movies, music, photos) on a pair of duplicated drives and each of them also has some space allocated for a backup clone partition. Since all my big media files are external, and my internal drive is a "small" 250GB SSD, it's easy to have a bunch of redundant clones scattered on different drives.
     
  23. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    May 4, 2013
    #23
    Backup Compression

    One other question I did not clearly ask is if the two backup types for the Mac compresses the backups. With my Windows, I usually use the Maximum compression level - never had any issue (except when I was careless). My windows backup compresses to about a third or a quarter compression level.

    The MacBook Pro came with a 500GB. With the OS and all the installed software, don't know what it would be, but at least, sure should be less than 100GB by the end of the year. It's is meant for the five year old.
     
  24. Oka thread starter macrumors member

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    #24
    A few places on the web, I read about first converting (in Windows) to Master Book Record before changing it to a NTFS. Is this really important? Did you first set yours to the Windows MBR before converting the Mac's FAT32 to NTFS?
     

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