Mac OS X Only Macs as of Jan 2003

[MacBandit]

Some people are acting like this is the end of the world. No one is forcing you to buy these new macs that won't support boot up in OS9. You could just as easily buy one of the current macs now or later it doesn't matter except they will be cheaper later. That should tie you over for a year which should give any software developer worth there beans time to develop there software for at the minimum classic though from what I've seen rebuilding an OS9 app and giving it carbon compatibilty doesn't take a rocket scientist. Also do you people really think that someone won't develop a hack so the new macs even could boot up in OS9. People there are people out there booting OSX on to old pre PPC macs. Anything possible with a bunch of Mac hacks.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Move to OS X good, USB 2 sux

Originally posted by dethl
On another note about new ports, Firewire was developed by Los Alamos National Laboratories, and Apple got the marketing rights. Will Firewire 2 be developed by the same people?

Where did you get that infomation? Any links to it?

This is the story I've always heard. from Wave-Report:

Firewire Tutorial

History

In the mid 1990's, Apple Computer invented the Firewire bus for local area networking. At the time it provided connection speeds of 100 Mb per second, although speeds of up to 1000 Mb per second were planned for the future. The standard was soon embraced by computer companies such as Intel and Microsoft, who saw the advantage of the Firewire/IEEE 1394 system over the established USB connection standard for applications such as connecting storage and optical drives. Universal Serial Bus (USB) has a connection speed of only 12 Mb per second. As electronics companies began producing digital video cameras, they too looked to the Firewire standard for connectivity, to maintain an all-digital path for signal quality in digital video editing.

In late 1998, Apple, which held the primary IP for Firewire, began charging a licensing fee of $1 per port--so a hard drive with 2 Firewire ports would cost an extra $2 per unit to construct. While a nuisance in the thriving PC industry, the additional fees would have seriously hampered the future of Firewire in the electronics industry, which typically operates on very thin margins. By the end of 1999, however, the standard was operating under a general licensing group, known as 1394LA, that holds the essential patents relating to the Firewire/IEEE 1394 standard in trust. This is similar to the way in which the patents regarding the MPEG video compression standard are licensed. Companies can now license the IEEE 1394 standard for $0.25 per finished unit, regardless of the number of actual 1394 ports in the unit. The term Firewire, however, remains a trademark of Apple.

 

[Thirteenva]

Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon

You sure like the taste of that foot, don't you?

LOL!

 

[locovaca]

Re: Re: Quick Q

Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon


I don't think it is, but I have read they are working on it. 64-bit is not the big deal people make of it. It only allows you to do things like access more memory. It's not faster per se.

Also CPUs like the IBM POWER series are 64-bit, but can handle 32-bit OS's without any problem.

Incorrect. 64 Bit CPUs have at least double the registers (and double the register size), and a simple recompile of any program can net up to a 10-15% increase- that is without optimizing any code. Memory loads and writes can take on the magnitude of hundreds of cyclones to do, and halving that number by doubling the number of registers has a very positive impact.

 

[locovaca]

Not to be a troll or anything, but the one problem that I have with Apple's policy of "discontinued OS's" is that they are the only ones that implement it. I can go put Redhat 5.0 linux on a new Intel/AMD system. Hell, for that matter you could put Dos 6.22 and Windows 3.1 on if you really felt like. Sure, it's of no use, but it's a freedom that you have, even if you don't exercise it.

As trivial as it seems, it's an artificial limit imposed by Apple, and the last thing that any good American likes it a limit put on their freedom. Apple doesn't have to support OS 9 at all- they don't need to release updates, release drivers, or patch any bugs. If Apple came out with a bluetooth keyboard and it didn't work under 9, nobody should complain because it's a discontinued OS.


That said, here's why Apple is doing it:
People would complain. Let's just say that Apple keeps shipping 9 on the new Macs in January. Let's say that they upgrade to Radeon 9700 Pros. So, you're average Joe Schmoe boots into 9 in order to install something like Quake 2. OS 9 doesn't have a proper extension for it because Apple never made one since it's a "discontinued os." So, Joe whines and kicks and screams because Apple shipped him a computer that has an OS that doesn't fully support his new hardware. So, Joe takes Apple to court.


Sound unreal? Maybe, maybe not. As trivial as it may seem, it takes double the money, double the time, and double the man power to support two OSs vs. one- money, time, and man power better spent elsewhere.

 

[atomwork]

X™

I didn't follow. But didn't Jobs mentioned that you can still install 9 if you delete the mac. So if this is possible i don't know why people complain. Or is the hardware so different that 9 wouldn't run on it? Can't imagen this.

Also i think that Apple has to do this to force the 3r party developers to get ther a*ses up. 2 years now with X and even Quark didn't tought about upgrating. I can just hope that people switch now. X is just so much nicer.

 

[dethl]

Re: Re: Move to OS X good, USB 2 sux

Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon


Where did you get that infomation? Any links to it?

I actually work for Los Alamos National Labs. I heard the info from a friend working in Divison X (highly classified division involving nuclear weapons, mainly computer models). He told me that Los Alamos developed it, and I guess Apple bought the rights to it? I don't have any links. Sorry. If I can, I'll try and contact him again and ask for more information.

 

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by locovaca

That said, here's why Apple is doing it:
People would complain. Let's just say that Apple keeps shipping 9 on the new Macs in January. Let's say that they upgrade to Radeon 9700 Pros. So, you're average Joe Schmoe boots into 9 in order to install something like Quake 2. OS 9 doesn't have a proper extension for it because Apple never made one since it's a "discontinued os." So, Joe whines and kicks and screams because Apple shipped him a computer that has an OS that doesn't fully support his new hardware. So, Joe takes Apple to court.

Some developers indeed are going to develop for X faster now that 9 is officially not supported. They may still do carbon apps, but they may not bother with a driver for OS 9, which saves them coding man hours.

I am already limited from booting into 9.1 (the useful version of 9 I keep around, I have a non tweaked extentionless 9.2.1 as well) although I need to, because my video card does not have a driver for 9.1. So what has happened? I don't need to boot into 9 so much anymore (If I did, I would have to switch to my PCI video card).

We may bitch and moan about the very real issues behind this, but if presented with a Mac that for some reason could NOT handle the legacy junk we have lying around, I doubt many of us would complain. We would just use the old mac for that task, or find some other way to complete that task.

 

[Jeffx342]

Windows XP stinks

I baught windows XP Pro $200
let me tell ya not even worth a penny

1. Microsoft has rights to access your computer (disclaimer)
2. Internal errors in IE 6 (no line found 140)
3. Uses too much recourses
4. Something always screws up
5. you delete a system file by accident windows wont log you in
6. you have to download Drivers for everything
7. Movie maker Sucks on XP
8. Media player sucks also
9. I feel like I am handicaped when im using XP, (goofy looking Icons)
10. Setting up a network can be a biatch*
11. not responsive enough
12. Ms Office Xp sucks compared to Mac edition
13. Freezes sometimes
14. Doesn't look pretty like Os X

my comp specs: Pentium 4 1.7Ghz
256 DDR System memorey
40 Gigs HD 7200
Geforce 3 Ti w/ 64 DDR

Looking forward to getting a Mac...

 

[MacBandit]

Re: Re: Move to OS X good, USB 2 sux

Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon


Where did you get that infomation? Any links to it?

This is the story I've always heard. from Wave-Report:

Firewire Tutorial

History

In the mid 1990's, Apple Computer invented the Firewire bus for local area networking. At the time it provided connection speeds of 100 Mb per second, although speeds of up to 1000 Mb per second were planned for the future. The standard was soon embraced by computer companies such as Intel and Microsoft, who saw the advantage of the Firewire/IEEE 1394 system over the established USB connection standard for applications such as connecting storage and optical drives. Universal Serial Bus (USB) has a connection speed of only 12 Mb per second. As electronics companies began producing digital video cameras, they too looked to the Firewire standard for connectivity, to maintain an all-digital path for signal quality in digital video editing.

In late 1998, Apple, which held the primary IP for Firewire, began charging a licensing fee of $1 per port--so a hard drive with 2 Firewire ports would cost an extra $2 per unit to construct. While a nuisance in the thriving PC industry, the additional fees would have seriously hampered the future of Firewire in the electronics industry, which typically operates on very thin margins. By the end of 1999, however, the standard was operating under a general licensing group, known as 1394LA, that holds the essential patents relating to the Firewire/IEEE 1394 standard in trust. This is similar to the way in which the patents regarding the MPEG video compression standard are licensed. Companies can now license the IEEE 1394 standard for $0.25 per finished unit, regardless of the number of actual 1394 ports in the unit. The term Firewire, however, remains a trademark of Apple.

So when did IEEE 1394 go from 100Mb/s to 400Mb/s that it is today.

 

[atip]

EBOOK?

What about EBOOK? We can't even read one on MAC OS X.

 

[MacBandit]

Re: EBOOK?

Originally posted by atip
What about EBOOK? We can't even read one on MAC OS X.

Complain to Adobe not Apple. They are the ones that developed the eBook reader for OS9. Have you tried the Acrobat eBook Reader under classic?

 

[atip]

Won't work under classic either.
It won't run on windows in Virtual PC either.
Adobe implemented some very proprietary encryption scheme so that you can't run it under emulated platform.

It takes forever to reboot into OS 9 just to read an ebook, and I don't even know how to set up OS 9 right. Airport is not finding my network. I switched from PC straight to OS X.

What a bummer. I bought 2 books today, and couldn't even read them yet.

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by atip
Won't work under classic either.
It won't run on windows in Virtual PC either.
Adobe implemented some very proprietary encryption scheme so that you can't run it under emulated platform.

It takes forever to reboot into OS 9 just to read an ebook, and I don't even know how to set up OS 9 right. Airport is not finding my network. I switched from PC straight to OS X.

What a bummer. I bought 2 books today, and couldn't even read them yet.

Guess I'll stick to paper and save my eyes. You could always by a Handspring and get the eBook reader software for it. I realize this is probably not an option I'm just making a stupid comment. Adobe has gone down hill in my eyes for the last few years.