Mac Shipments Down in Q4 2019 Amid Overall PC Market Growth

AlumaMac

macrumors regular
Jan 25, 2018
131
176
Visit any place that deaks with engeneering, not saying macs cant do jt, the problem is Doludworks and autocad does not run on macos, ok they could run it in bootcamp, but if they havetobeun windows anyway, why not get a laptop designed for it? Or does this not qualify in your definition of "in the wild"
Autocad runs natively in OSX.
 

ipponrg

macrumors 68000
Oct 15, 2008
1,767
1,326
The point remains. Keyboard “issues” are totally overstated here. The quality and long term usability of Macs is proven to be superior to Windows machines.
If by overstated you mean that Apple had to create a special keyboard replacement program, then absolutely.

Just dropped my 2018 mbp with IT yesterday for Key misfires. For my company, the rate of defects are increasing on keyboard issues on 2016-2018 MBPs.
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Are consumers finally catching on to how bad the Mac laptops really are?
I really don’t think Mac laptops are terrible in general. The 2015s work quite well. It was just these last 2-3 years have been atrocious, and hopefully they can course correct. It is disappointing that the laptops cost as much as they do though for the amount of issues they have.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
736
397
if it listens to the feedback from the power-user.
Power-users are a tiny bit of the Mac market. Listening to feedback from the power-user allows them to sell a few thousand more systems?
part of the reason why wearables are doing so well is because Apple has been channeling more time and resources to them
I’d look at it from the other side. The wearables are doing so well because the vast majority WANTS wearables. Channeling time and resources to something works only if it’s a thing people want to buy.
The status of the Mac and its market shares, compared to the iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch that virtually domiante their corresponding segments,
But, remember, the iPad is actually one of the corresponding segments that’s actively competing against the Mac, they’re not in isolation.
The competition in the 13 inch laptop space is pretty fierce these days.
And I believe Apple sells more iPads than not only the 13 inch laptops, but all the laptops of all the major vendors combined.
I hope I know when to cash in my stock before it crashes and Tim ruins the company.
As long as you don’t equate Apple’s total financial well being to how many Macs they sell, you’ll be fine :)
 

LordVic

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2011
5,551
11,847
Combination of the 2015-2019 MacBook Pro problems affecting Apple's brand perception in the computer/laptop space, and pricing that is still a tad wee bit too high in comparison to a lot of competition.

not unexpected in any measure. Apple doing a slight trade off in volume sales for margins on the financials. Apple is not immune to price elasticity.

other factors that might impact current Apple sales besides just the above:

1. diminished resale value. More Apple devices on the market, means more also available for resale. in Addition, the known issues with some of their products will have a diminishing affect on resale. Thus the resale motive of purchasing new devices from Apple is greatly diminished.

2. Not the best performing devices. Apple's devices are pretty, but numerous of them over the last few years have suffered from thermal issues resulting in people having to make trade off. They're still good devices, but if performance was your #1 requirement, Apple was not necessarily your best choice.

3. Options Options Options. Dell, HP and Lenovo all have dozens of different products and product offerings that range from the ridiculously cheap low quality crap, to high end devices. it's easier to target new audiences or other audiences for sales when you have more products to target more markets. Apple's narrow focus on their product lines may work for certain marketed, but clearly doesn't really expand it's reach

4. The Mac Pro is likely inconsequential in these numbers as a low volume, high price product that likely only sells a few thousand. the bulk of these sales are likely laptops.


I think the 2109 16" MacBook Pro is a step in the right direction to fix and turn around the computer lineup. still not the cheapest laptop out there in it's class and category, but fixes a lot of the issues that existed in the 2015-2019 model years. Now Apple just needs to trickle the changes they made to it to the rest of their computer lineup.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
736
397
Are consumers finally catching on to how bad the Mac laptops really are?
The quality of Mac laptops MAY factor into it. But, the larger factor is most likely that most consumers look at the iPad, go “good enough” and never concern themselves with the trials and tribulations of products with “Mac” in their name. :)
 
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Dec 6, 2019
50
9
It could be that many of the mac product took longer for new design or update compare to other brand of PC that has a newer model for early, mid and fall throughout the year.
 

theluggage

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2011
4,238
2,953
What's the product that does to Apple what the iPhone did to Nokia?
...it doesn't even need a product - just one social media post with a funny photo and a caption like "Yeah, my dad has an iPhone too!" going viral.

Apple's record share price & revenue is still highly dependent on the iPhone - in a saturated market that is very fashion-driven and potentially fickle - and the current iPhone doesn't have much to distinguish it from the competition apart from the brand.

Of course, the Mac isn't going to be the next massive iPhone-like hit - but it is the #4 largest-selling personal computer range, which may come in useful when the iPhone bubble pops, and yet it has been treated like an indulgent hobby, with no discernible effort being made to compete with Windows PCs and the main concern being whether new Macs might cannibalise sales of other Macs to existing users.

The 16" MBP is a step in a slightly better direction - a new keyboard and substantially better value for money - but why did it take 4 years to acknowledge that the keyboard was duff, and where's the 14" MBP model and 13" MBA to match? The last 4-5 years have seen Macs replaced piecemeal, one model a year, with no sign of a coherent range emerging, and dead-ends like the 12" MB and the iMac Pro, plus confusing products like the "MacBook Pro formerly without touch bar now with touch bar"... and how come a $1TN company can't afford to put the innards of the LG Ultrafine (which they very obviously had a hand in designing) in a nice metal case that matches their computers?
 

goodcow

macrumors 6502a
Aug 4, 2007
622
299
The current Mini is not a "powerhouse" and quite very overpriced for what you get:

1) The CPU is a laptop chip

2) Cooling is awful

3) The integrated GPU will bottleneck your CPU. For example there are tons of users complaining about audio glitches in Logic and Ableton Live when running a 4K monitor. The solution is either to go down to 1080p or buy an eGPU solution (on top of the overpriced Mini).
The 2018 Mac mini CPU is not a laptop chip, it's a desktop chip. Regarding cooling, it feels hot, but seems to work perfectly fine doing things like compressing all day long.

The six core i7 model benchmarks faster than the 12 core Mac Pro trash can, so I would argue it is quite the powerhouse.

My complaints are Apple's absurd BTO pricing for RAM and SSD upgrades.

I did pay more than double for my 2018 mini vs. my 2012 mini, but the 2012 mini came with two slow AF laptop drives in it, and either 4 or 8GB of RAM, which I ended up upgrading myself immediately.

They should allow for easy RAM replacement again like the 2012 model (or have reasonable RAM upgrade prices), and have reasonable SSD upgrade prices.

But I'm pretty pleased with my 2018 mini, and expect it'll easily last 5+ years, like my 2012 mini. That's about $1 a day.
 
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Baymowe335

macrumors 603
Oct 6, 2017
5,660
10,068
If by overstated you mean that Apple had to create a special keyboard replacement program, then absolutely.

Just dropped my 2018 mbp with IT yesterday for Key misfires. For my company, the rate of defects are increasing on keyboard issues on 2016-2018 MBPs.
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I really don’t think Mac laptops are terrible in general. The 2015s work quite well. It was just these last 2-3 years have been atrocious, and hopefully they can course correct. It is disappointing that the laptops cost as much as they do though for the amount of issues they have.
Or that they still selL butterfly keyboards and took 4 years before even removing it from just some of their laptops? Yeah.

It might have been more failures than they wanted, but they’ve sold these for years and the replacement program takes care of the few with issues. If any large number had them, they wouldn’t have continued to sell them and would have pulled them from new sales.
 

GalileoSeven

macrumors regular
Jan 3, 2015
220
267
This is a combination of a few things IMO:

1) Apple's well-publicized QA/QC snafus with their hardware & software

2) People ditching laptops for tablets (which I've done)

3) People who've been pushed past their "red line" with regards to Apple's pricing (ppl who are tired of paying the "Apple Tax" for new machines and/or component upgrades)

Personally, I think this is a bit of a speed-bump in the long run. The majority of Apple fans will stick with them, but perhaps have taken a "wait and see" approach with regards to future machine purchases (whereas people who switch/defect are still in the minority ATM).


Windows 7 going EOL probably accounts for the growth on the PC side. Once I get a gaming laptop here in the next month or so, that will spell the end of my Mac usage though (as I can just use my existing desktop rig in place of my iMac when it croaks).
 

robjulo

macrumors 65816
Jul 16, 2010
1,303
2,110
Overstated how and according to who? Let's see numbers. You don't have them. You are aware they changed the design though. Shill, shill, shill.

Let’s see what the real numbers say in February when Apple reports. These are guesses.
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The point remains. Keyboard “issues” are totally overstated here. The quality and long term usability of Macs is proven to be superior to Windows machines.
 

Baymowe335

macrumors 603
Oct 6, 2017
5,660
10,068
Overstated how and according to who? Let's see numbers. You don't have them. You are aware they changed the design though. Shill, shill, shill.
I go from financials. Apple grew the Mac 2019 vs 2018 and it has been an extremely stable product from Apple. The reality is, it’s a small business for Apple now.

Instead of calling an investor who knows the numbers a shill, present a fact.
 

robjulo

macrumors 65816
Jul 16, 2010
1,303
2,110
You DON'T present facts....never have. The specific reference I made was to the keyboard numbers. Show me the data that it is "blown out of proportion". You don't have it. Don't shift the discussion, address what I asked you about specfically.

I go from financials. Apple grew the Mac 2019 vs 2018 and it has been an extremely stable product from Apple. The reality is, it’s a small business for Apple now.

Instead of calling an investor who knows the numbers a shill, present a fact.
 
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Poisonivy326

macrumors 6502
Nov 25, 2012
477
69
Ok so I had a 2013 first gen retina Macbook pro. That machine was AMAZING. It still is amazing. Works like a breeze. However it was kind of slow and I was looking for a newer computer.

At work they gave me a 2017 MBP. I cannot tell you how awful that computer was compared to my old rMBP. The thing heated up so much I actually burned my hand. It didn't automatically go to sleep when I closed the case, and the battery would drain. The USB-C charging port is so stubborn that I can't tell you how many accidents were saved by me being REALLY careful of never stepping around the wire. The battery life and keyboard were awful.

So when I decided I really did need a newer, super-portable computer I went with a Surface Pro 7. Love it. O still work on my rMBP at home. I'll buy a new model of MBP if they bring back the things that made the first gen rMBP so awesome.

Also ... because it needs to be said ... the Macbook Air model's processors are a joke in 2020.
 
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PostApple2016BrainWash

macrumors member
Nov 11, 2019
63
44
Clearly, the mac product is less appealing due to the very old design such as iMac. it needs to get a facelift for the customer who might want to consider an upgrade.
 

SomeSoftwareGuy

macrumors regular
Mar 8, 2019
100
84
The mac stuff is expensive especially for retail buyers, I can only assume most of those Lenovo, HP, and Dell shipments are going to corporations where they buy large quantities of laptops and desktops.
 
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Baymowe335

macrumors 603
Oct 6, 2017
5,660
10,068
You DON'T present facts....never have. The specific reference I made was to the keyboard numbers. Show me the data that it is "blown out of proportion". You don't have it. Don't shift the discussion, address what I asked you about specfically.
Apple grew Mac 2019 from 2018 is a fact. Brush up on them.

I already addressed the keyboard issue. It didn’t impact sales and they continue to sell them. They also took 4 years to change it on only some Macs so the issue is evidently manageable and not large enough to scrap it.

Sometimes, the evidence is in what Apple does. It’s not like you have any data to prove it was a major issue. They have a replacement program on many items, because they sell such huge volume and take care of customers with issues. That’s a good thing. It’s not proof it was some major issue.
 
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realtuner

macrumors 68000
Mar 8, 2019
1,629
4,638
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This thread still going?

The “estimated” numbers from IDC and Gartner are so far off we don’t really know if Mac sales dropped slightly, stayed the same, or went up.

Yet people are getting bent out of shape over a possibly tiny variation in Mac sales, something that’s been going on forever.
 
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xgman

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2007
4,814
626
This is no surprise at all. This would be fairly easily remedied if they paid any attention at all to the marketplace, as well as current mac users wish lists. I realize that macs are not the profit center here, but it just looks bad and let's us long time, loyal mac users down a bit.
 

compwiz1202

macrumors 6502a
May 20, 2010
619
135
For only a very small subset of folks. The vast majority of folks never upgraded their memory because what they had in it when they bought it was already over what they needed.
But you can save loads if it is possible to upgrade yourself. With laptops I buy the base model and upgrade for a tenth of what you would pay them. Even with laptops anymore it isn't solders but you have to take off the entire cover instead of a nice access panel like they used to have. Even the desktop my dad had didn't even have any extra ATA cords to add a drive.
 

mi7chy

macrumors 603
Oct 24, 2014
6,047
7,030
The hackintosh scene is growing so probably the reason for lower Mac sales.

Since the stats don't cover unlabeled DIY/hackintosh market it's more of a reflection of the business market that buys labeled PCs and because they're on a multi-year refresh cycle it's rather pointless to report the down period inbetween refresh cycles.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors 68030
Dec 7, 2014
2,833
3,674
That's a selective quote, I wasn't trying to suggest an improved mini would stem-the-tide of slightly falling Mac sales,
Fair enough. There were several posts mentioning the Mac mini, and I found that a little odd.

I was just illustrating that across the whole mac lineup, there are landmines, major caveats and cruft gallore.

If a relative of mine wants an iPhone/iPad I don't even have to give them advice, they can just get whatever price bracket they fit into, everything is awesome. The 16gb base model used to be a landmine, but now that's gone. Everything is at minimum a great product. How it should be.

In comparison, the Mac lineup - even if they fix all the blatantly obvious issues in the coming months - if they ditch that all the woeful landfill-fodder 21" iMac HDD models and they move scissor on to at least all the Pro laptops, I'd still be on the phone telling them what to not get.
Sure, but that's also in part because there are so many more Macs to choose from.