Macrumors turning into /. ???

Discussion in 'Community' started by G4scott, Jul 28, 2003.

  1. G4scott macrumors 68020


    Jan 9, 2002
    Austin, TX
    I know this has come up several times here, but it always comes up in threads that actually have a subject about something, and drive them completely off topic.

    What I'm talking about is this influx of newbies who post here for the main purpose of pissing us Mac users off.

    I just see so many more of them these days, but it gets worse.

    We have equally bad Mac trolls.

    While we may not be as bad as SpyMac, we at Mac Rumors are a bit more open to the PC world. We also have more die-hard PC users coming over and trolling.

    The PC trolls are expected to be blatant and stupid, but the Mac trolls are different.

    They say things like: "Mac OS X rules, and Apple's hardware is faster than anything on the planet".

    To which a not-so-hardcore-mac-person replies: "There are systems faster than Apple's hardware, and Apple uses marketing to make people think the opposite, but I still use my Mac, because I can get my work done on it."

    Then, a person with actual knowledge makes a statement about the technical aspects of things, usually to correct the mac troll (and occasionally, the PC troll.)

    Then, a wise-guy mac troll comes in and says something to the effect of: "Mac OS X rules, and Apple's hardware is faster than anything on the planet"

    Then the disgruntled mac user slams back with a whole page on how Apple's marketing is just there to hide the facts that Macs are still slower, that OS X crashes more than his windows machine, that his PC is more expandable, and you get the point.

    Then a realistic Mac user posts on how although Apple's processor speeds are a bit behind, they are catching up, and the PowerPC architecture has its advantages over the x86 world. He also points out that although 10.0 was really bad, that each upgrade just gets better and better, more than any version of windows that he has ever used. This realistic Mac person is a sensible person, who uses both Macs and PC's, and doesn't act like a zealot to defend the Mac platform. He'll point out problems, but will also focus on the good things, and not just nag on the bad.

    After that, a PC troll usually comes in, and just screws everything up. Of course by this point, the thread, which was supposed to be about a new wireless mouse from Apple, or the color of Clarus's fur, has been driven horribly off topic, and at which point is almost unrecoverable, because every type of person mentioned above has something to say about the other guy's attacks.

    The thread is degraded into a troll/flame war.

    I miss the good old days with AlphaTech, when arguments actually meant something, and people weren't going to accept bull**** from people who didn't know what they were talking about.

    In conclusion...

    I feel that the Mac Rumors Forums are turning into a slashdot type of thing, where trolling is common, and personal insults and flame wars take away from the meaning of things.

    To help prevent this, common sense would help, but there doesn't seem to be enough of that around here.

    To the Mac Trolls: Give it a break, you aren't going to change their minds with blatant statements like "Mac OS X rules, and Apple's hardware is faster than anything on the planet"

    To the know-it-all want-to-bes: Unless you have concrete evidence, and can back it up with a website, and not just some "my friend told me" thing, keep it out of the forums. It's called bull****, and nobody wants to hear it here.

    To people with actual knowledge: Keep it relevant. Don't help to drive threads off topic just to prove someone wrong (as fun as that may be)

    To the disgruntled mac user: Don't bring your problems into other threads. Leave them in the community discussion. Don't ruin other threads just because you have issues with your Mac. That's no way to get a problem solved.

    To the PC troll: (in a cartman voice) Get the **** out. Go troll on or places like that where your opinion fits in.

    To everyone else, who may not be a Mac wizard, or is here for help or just to have fun: Enjoy yourselves. Follow the rules, but don't feel intimidated by others to ask questions. Just be sure to do a search first to see if your question has already been asked, and answered.

    By following some simple guidelines, I feel the amount of bull**** and trash on MacRumors can be greatly reduced. The die-hard mac people need to calm down or go to spymac, and we don't need to feed the trolls.

    These Mac debates are getting as bad as the political discussions, and we really don't want that.

    Seriously, guys, can't we get along here? We're a community of people who share the same interests. We should be able to have intelligent discussions about Mac related things, not arguments about why Macs are better than PC's (and vice-versa) based on personal attacks.

    Why, I remember when MacRumors used to be fun, with intelligent discussions. Is asking people to follow some guidelines, and use common sense too much to ask for?
  2. arn macrumors god


    Staff Member

    Apr 9, 2001
    dunno - I guess I can't say I've noticed much more of a difference in the quantity of pro-mac/pro-pc trolls. But maybe I don't read all the threads in depth.

    This site's always had a fair number of irrationally-pro-mac people. Overall, the community is more tolerant to it because of the mac-based nature of the site.

  3. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus


    Oct 5, 2001
    San Diego, CA
    The signal/noise ratio gets bad from time to time, especially during the summer, when kids are out of school, and when Apple makes a big announcement like the G5.
  4. edesignuk Moderator emeritus


    Mar 25, 2002
    London, England
    I know what your saying G4Scott, I get pissed off with both as well. On the one hand you have PC zealots coming here just to make trouble, but then you also have the Mac zealots already hidden amongst us who seem to think that Apple are flawless and rule the world, which of course, is not the case. As both a Mac and PC user I see the argument from both sides, and just as I get pissed here with people slagging of the PC just because they haven't used one since Win95, I get just as pissed with folks on PC forums slating the Mac when they have no idea what the current generation of Mac is capable of.
    But there will always be zealots on both sides, I for one am just gonna grin and bare it. If someone wants to believe in something so blind then so be it, let them. Doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to me, it’s their loss.
  5. Flowbee macrumors 68030


    Dec 27, 2002
    Alameda, CA
    Well said, G4.

    It seems like most of the 'noise' that was generated here in the weeks following the G5 announcement has died down quite a bit. And surprisingly, some of the new members who really seemed like trolls a few weeks ago have become regular posters and have since made constructive contributions to the site.

    I think we should all just expect that the release of the G5 will step up the PC backlash (and, in turn, the Mac zealotry). The key to keeping this site sane is to ignore them the best we can.
  6. iJon macrumors 604


    Feb 7, 2002
    well i see it everynow and then, really doesnt bother me. now what is getting annoying is that there is like 5 newbs who post the same topic in a new thread. i swear i have seen like 3 or more buymusic threads and its annoying. but oh well, not my job to tell with it. im sure if arn gets annoyed with it (im sure he does) he will fix it.

  7. MrMacMan macrumors 604


    Jul 4, 2001
    1 Block away from NYC.
    Yeah MacRumors Gets a little more heated during the summer as compared to the rest of the year.

    I'm sure everyone will get their facts straight soon and stop pushing phony facts.
  8. Independence macrumors regular

    Jan 14, 2003
    United States
    the mac and pc zealots are what really get to me. i have an easier time ignoring the pc zealots. the mac zealots are kinda hard to ignore when they call me a brainless pc user just because i use a pc. i try my best to remain neutral.
  9. solvs macrumors 603


    Jun 25, 2002
    LaLaLand, CA
    I think this site's pretty good about trolls. Getting rid of them that is. Maccentral used to be much worse, they were riddled with trolls. But they seem to be getting better now, too. Maybe people are getting lives, maybe the admins have stepped up and banned some people. Maybe a combination of both.

    Some people have nothing better to do than to bother other people. Which is kinda sad really. And the anonymity of the internet allows them to do this. Sometimes it's productive, sometimes it's just random b*tching. There's nothing like a nice big public forum.

    Of course, that's what the rules are for, and why we have moderators.
  10. e-coli macrumors 68000


    Jul 27, 2002
    Nicely said.

    What ever happened to AlphaTech? He was here, then he lurked, then he vanished. He was a contrary fella...but he was good for debates.
  11. bbarnhart macrumors 6502a


    Jan 16, 2002
    What I find annoying is all of the fluff posts, pointless posts or lame posts. It is hard to moving through all of the new posts when there is always 4+ pages of topics I have to move through. I usually end up only reading 5-6 topics. And, I check the new posts several times a day.

    If there was some way to limit the number of topics that would be great, of course, I don't know how you would do it.
  12. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Mar 2, 2002
    Calling upon the anti-zealot campaign

    mischief, vniow, myself, et al

    If this amount uninformed trolls are going to cause this much steam on the site, then we need a recognized consideration of informed Mac and PC users to match numbers and refine such trolls.

    AlphaTech has left the AZC (anti-zealot campaign), unfortunately, because his tolerance level to such trolling was unacceptably low. We will have to perform without him.

    And perform we will. It's time to bring the anti-zealot campaign to full force so we don't become Slashdot II. We are MacRumors. We handle the trolls, which navigate to every Mac and PC rumors site, and we give each of these forums the environment each is famous for.

    We are registered to We have a powerful voice because of our recognition, both within the site and outside the site. If we choose to fulfill the environment of the site with improper reactions with trolls, then that is how our site will be viewed. Yet we can make the environment seem more controlled if we can control the trolls.

    So to the anti-zealot campaign, if you are online:

    Let's kill the willingness of the troll so they are ours to mold.
  13. Gus macrumors 65816


    Jan 1, 2002
  14. vniow macrumors G4

    Jul 18, 2002
    I accidentally my whole location.
    Re: Calling upon the anti-zealot campaign

    I'm in.
  15. arn macrumors god


    Staff Member

    Apr 9, 2001

    I think organized campaigns really don't turn out well. It turns it into a me-vs-them mentality.

  16. MrMacMan macrumors 604


    Jul 4, 2001
    1 Block away from NYC.
    Re: Re: Calling upon the anti-zealot campaign

    Weird, it sounded like you didn't know you were going to be included before you posted... :rolleyes:

    All watch OUT King Cobra is gonna get ya!

    [joking on]
    Arn Better Watch out or the'll put you on the Mac Zealot List!
  17. tazo macrumors 68040


    Apr 6, 2003
    Pacific Northwest, Seattle, WA actually
    Re: Re: Calling upon the anti-zealot campaign

    wont that ironically make everyone who joins this coalition, themselves a zealot? :)
  18. Doctor Q Administrator

    Doctor Q

    Staff Member

    Sep 19, 2002
    Los Angeles
    We do need to keep in practice at defending and promoting our platform of choice, so an occasional challenge from a newbie won't hurt. But I understand what you mean about the hit and run attacks.
  19. MrMacMan macrumors 604


    Jul 4, 2001
    1 Block away from NYC.
    Re: Re: Re: Calling upon the anti-zealot campaign

    Yes they will be both:
    Mac Anti-Zealot/Mac Zealot Zealot and
    Pc Anti-Zealot/Pc Zealot Zealot

    Yes, it would make them Zealots... haha.

    Just everyone stop trying to give false claims and PC Zealots, if you even try to do it, don't your probably gonna get flammed.
  20. King Cobra macrumors 603

    Mar 2, 2002
    Re: Re: Re: Calling upon the anti-zealot campaign

    tazo and arn, this isn't supposed to be a versus campaign. This is a protection campaign. When no trolls are misbehaving, there are no trolls to roll over to protect the forums.

    I agree that the line I posted in my previous post was suggestive of a versus theme, but it is only in effect when trolling activity is equally present. I don't go out searching for trolls. Otherwise, I would be registered at Slashdot more than MacRumors, which may not be beneficial for my health.

    arn has a point, though. Let's not make this a "who is better" situation. This is protection, not a competition.

    The primary goal of the campaign is to keep the forums in a positive nature away from trolling activity. If any trolls make a mark within the boards, and one such troll is spotted, it will be extinguished. And, unfortunately, there will often be such immaturity here and there on the boards.

    So perhaps there is also irony in such a campaign.

    Perhaps we should also have a catch line:
    "To protect and sever"


    Also, a little prenotice to everyone here, including members outside the campaign. I encourage reading of this mention:

    There will be registered board members that post immature and/or nasty words against another individual. On these public boards, if you see a post with "You lying . . ." or "Why don't you [do this] . . ." or some other intentional insult, regardless of who it is directed against, report it privately.

    If you really have the urge to reply back to that person, do yourself a favor: Copy the text in the post, save it to your computer, and make your replies with your own private life without submitting it online.

    Above all else, the moderators have high powers on the boards. If such posts pop up on the forums, let them know. The moderators and arn have the highest authority on the board, and it is their responsibility to remove pointless insults. Report insults to the mods, as these guys are the true authority for the anti-zealot campaign.

    Posts that are troll-like require our corrections. Insults that are of a dislike require moderative redirection.
  21. mac15 macrumors 68040

    Dec 29, 2001
    its turning into "hey I switched from PC to mac and know I know everything mac and am a guru, palace for jackass' "

    Sounds good for you? :)
  22. britboy macrumors 68030


    Nov 4, 2001
    Kent, UK

    True, but we still want more of them, don't we?

    Perhaps if recent switchers just recognise their limitations with a new OS....would that make you happy?
  23. scem0 macrumors 604


    Jul 16, 2002
    back in NYC!
    I hate trolls, I must say.

    But I don't think trying to get rid of them would do any good.

    I'd rather try to ignore them.

    I also didn't realize that there were so many types of trolls!

  24. robbieduncan Moderator emeritus


    Jul 24, 2002
    Whilst trolls are bad you will get them at any public discussion forum. Unfortunatly there are people out there who are like that. But I think comparing MR to /. is a bit unfair. We do not seem to have the breadth or depth of the trolls at /. They really have us beat. They've got the Soviet Russia trolls, the first post trolls, the automatic scripted trolls, the Natalie Portman trolls. And that's only scratching the surface. These trolls seem to be breeding. There is an automated "I bought a Mac because I heard they were gay" troll now.

    So in summary it's not that bad here ;)
  25. maradong macrumors 65816


    Mar 7, 2003
    great summary g4scott,
    thought the situation might not be as bad as you describe. Certainly there are sometimes some of that special genre of people posting 2 or 3 posts of no real value, and never coming back.
    Netetiquette has gone down the last years. as well in irc, in newsgroups and forums, everywhere, to be short. I don t wan t to argue about that, but mostly because of windows users, running there beloved os, and accessing everything via click and click.
    Before, people had to search for, and learn of how to use the undernet, or so. and many only understood it when they got a bit more mature. Thought nowadays there are tons of script kiddies and people who d better have to stick with email, who can access all these.
    Spam in general, off topic posts, as well in forums and newsgroups is the consequence of this all.

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