I know this has come up several times here, but it always comes up in threads that actually have a subject about something, and drive them completely off topic. What I'm talking about is this influx of newbies who post here for the main purpose of pissing us Mac users off. I just see so many more of them these days, but it gets worse. We have equally bad Mac trolls. While we may not be as bad as SpyMac, we at Mac Rumors are a bit more open to the PC world. We also have more die-hard PC users coming over and trolling. The PC trolls are expected to be blatant and stupid, but the Mac trolls are different. They say things like: "Mac OS X rules, and Apple's hardware is faster than anything on the planet". To which a not-so-hardcore-mac-person replies: "There are systems faster than Apple's hardware, and Apple uses marketing to make people think the opposite, but I still use my Mac, because I can get my work done on it." Then, a person with actual knowledge makes a statement about the technical aspects of things, usually to correct the mac troll (and occasionally, the PC troll.) Then, a wise-guy mac troll comes in and says something to the effect of: "Mac OS X rules, and Apple's hardware is faster than anything on the planet" Then the disgruntled mac user slams back with a whole page on how Apple's marketing is just there to hide the facts that Macs are still slower, that OS X crashes more than his windows machine, that his PC is more expandable, and you get the point. Then a realistic Mac user posts on how although Apple's processor speeds are a bit behind, they are catching up, and the PowerPC architecture has its advantages over the x86 world. He also points out that although 10.0 was really bad, that each upgrade just gets better and better, more than any version of windows that he has ever used. This realistic Mac person is a sensible person, who uses both Macs and PC's, and doesn't act like a zealot to defend the Mac platform. He'll point out problems, but will also focus on the good things, and not just nag on the bad. After that, a PC troll usually comes in, and just screws everything up. Of course by this point, the thread, which was supposed to be about a new wireless mouse from Apple, or the color of Clarus's fur, has been driven horribly off topic, and at which point is almost unrecoverable, because every type of person mentioned above has something to say about the other guy's attacks. The thread is degraded into a troll/flame war. I miss the good old days with AlphaTech, when arguments actually meant something, and people weren't going to accept bull**** from people who didn't know what they were talking about. In conclusion... I feel that the Mac Rumors Forums are turning into a slashdot type of thing, where trolling is common, and personal insults and flame wars take away from the meaning of things. To help prevent this, common sense would help, but there doesn't seem to be enough of that around here. To the Mac Trolls: Give it a break, you aren't going to change their minds with blatant statements like "Mac OS X rules, and Apple's hardware is faster than anything on the planet" To the know-it-all want-to-bes: Unless you have concrete evidence, and can back it up with a website, and not just some "my friend told me" thing, keep it out of the forums. It's called bull****, and nobody wants to hear it here. To people with actual knowledge: Keep it relevant. Don't help to drive threads off topic just to prove someone wrong (as fun as that may be) To the disgruntled mac user: Don't bring your problems into other threads. Leave them in the community discussion. Don't ruin other threads just because you have issues with your Mac. That's no way to get a problem solved. To the PC troll: (in a cartman voice) Get the **** out. Go troll on www.ihateapple.com or places like that where your opinion fits in. To everyone else, who may not be a Mac wizard, or is here for help or just to have fun: Enjoy yourselves. Follow the rules, but don't feel intimidated by others to ask questions. Just be sure to do a search first to see if your question has already been asked, and answered. By following some simple guidelines, I feel the amount of bull**** and trash on MacRumors can be greatly reduced. The die-hard mac people need to calm down or go to spymac, and we don't need to feed the trolls. These Mac debates are getting as bad as the political discussions, and we really don't want that. Seriously, guys, can't we get along here? We're a community of people who share the same interests. We should be able to have intelligent discussions about Mac related things, not arguments about why Macs are better than PC's (and vice-versa) based on personal attacks. Why, I remember when MacRumors used to be fun, with intelligent discussions. Is asking people to follow some guidelines, and use common sense too much to ask for?