Man gets 70 year sentence for killing burglar - in his own home - in the dark

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Meister, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #1
  2. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Lets start with the fact he wasn't in his house.
     
  3. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #3
    The garage was part of the house.
     
  4. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    We could have an interesting semantic argument about that but he wasn't in the garage when the shots were fired.
     
  5. scjr macrumors 68000

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    #5
    I guess the monitoring device and the first shot wounding the teen wasn't enough.

     
  6. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #6
    They both were inside the garage. There is an actual video of it online.
     
  7. Renzatic Suspended

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    #7
    Send me a link. I want to see this.
     
  8. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #8
    How was he supposed to know that he had wounded the burglar and that it was only one of them?
    (In fact the other one was on the lookout outside and took off after he heard the shots)

    It was dark and someone just broke into his home.
    Are you claiming that in the dark and under great duress the homeowner can immediately assess the threat and intuitively knows that there is only one burglar and that this one burglar was disabled sufficiantely by his one shot?

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    I will, if I can find it again. Safari keeps crashing on my iPad. I saw it a while ago on a german news page.
     
  9. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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  10. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    You sure are nitpicking.
    From what I remember, what I saw, the burglar was in the garage and the homeowner came into the garage (or was standing in the entrance).
    I don't see what difference that makes. The homeowners girlfriend and baby were in the rooms right next to the garage. It is in either case a bery threatening situation.
     
  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #11
    The man was convicted of shooting someone in his own home ... in Montana.

    The jury heard enough to convince them that his use of force was excessive. It's a little difficult to read a short wire story and weigh it against the evidence and testimony presented in court.
     
  12. sodapop1 Suspended

    sodapop1

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    #12
    A 70 year sentence does seem excessive but this guy deserves to go to jail. This guy basically put out a piece of cheese in a mouse trap and waited for the victim to come along.
     
  13. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    According to the affidavit they were both outside. Presumably the baby was alone inside.

    I have trouble believing someone who genuinely felt threatened would walk out his front door into the dark night.
     
  14. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #14
    You make a good point.
    I am just wondering about it.

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    ...?
     
  15. sodapop1 Suspended

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    #15
    This guy was acting more like a vigilante and what he did was premeditated murder.
     
  16. Renzatic Suspended

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    #16
    Alright. I ask because there is a moment when what begins as a direct, clear cut case of self defense can end up as murder. Being able to see what actually went down would definitely make it easier to decide which was which in this guy's situation.
     
  17. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    Things are liable to look like that when a couple of days before you shoot someone you say : "I've been up three night with a shotgun waiting to kill some kids"
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Thanks for linking to the affidavit. That does help to add context to the case.

    "I'm just waiting to shoot some ****ing kid." And then he leaves his garage door open 5.5 feet and baits it with a purse just hoping someone will take it. He blocks the exit and shoots blindly into the open garage. Sounds pretty questionable to me. I'm just surprised that in this climate a jury from Montana would see it that way as well. I'd have guessed that out of 12 jurors you'd have found at least one stand-your-ground gun nut who'd hang that jury.
     
  19. Renzatic Suspended

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    #20
    And that's why it's murder. Everything else aside, the kid never even attacked the guy. He was never in immediate, mortal peril. How could he claim self defense?
     
  20. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #21
    No, the burglar entered his garage through a partially open garage door. That's not "breaking into his home". The guy never entered the home, and didn't break in to the garage.

    I don't know about your house, but every house I've ever lived in has a lockable door between the garage and the main house. If you're on one side of that door, and someone else is on the other and is not trying to get through it, you are not being threatened, nor are you "under duress". Thus far, there is no threat.

    Opening the door and firing into the garage is not "self defense" as you were under no threat. The moment the guy comes through the door into your house, have at it.

    Many years ago, my parents regularly had alcohol and food stolen out of their garage fridge overnight. They were pretty sure who it was, but never could catch him in the act. He was your standard troublesome teen who had been arrested a few times, but for things like truancy and minor theft. I was sitting outside one night (at the age of 17 or so) when I saw a two guys walk across our yard and around the side of our house. A minute or so later, I saw them leave. They had stolen a pack of pepsi and a cake. I don't know about your opinion, but to me, that's not worthy of running in after them and firing a shotgun.

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    He wasn't even in minor peril. He heard some motion detectors go off and went and fired into a dark garage, right?
     
  21. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #22
    According to the affidavit, the garage was open 5.5 feet. That's not just partially open ... that's mostly open.

    Of course that doesn't mean that someone should go inside, but they essentially left the garage door open if all you have to do is duck your head a little to go in.
     
  22. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #23
    What kind of cake?
     
  23. Renzatic Suspended

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    #24
    I think the garage thing is tripping most people up, because, for one, if it's connected directly to the house, then it's covered under the castle doctrine. The guy probably could've fired a shot in the dark if he had a reason to believe the intruder represented a direct threat.

    But the thing that makes this guy a murderer is that the entire scenario was a constructed set up. He left the garage door open. He left a purse in plain view. he set up a motion detector to alert him to any intrusion. All with the stated intention of shooting and killing whoever went in there. What he had done was make a death trap for dip****s. It wasn't self defense. He wasn't in any danger. He was manhunting.

    If there's such a thing as a civil version of entrapment, this would be it.
     
  24. johnnyturbouk macrumors 68000

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    #25
    Sorry for sounding like a whiny leftist buddhist from the UK. But i personally feel there is very, very, very little that can justify murder.

    I am glad such questionable laws and even more questionable morals and ethics do not exist in my neighbourhood. I could understand if there was a direct threat, or even a perceived danger - this was a premeditated and callous crime. Hope he get's the full 70 years.
     

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