Man loses daughter, sick people blame him.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by B's iPhone, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. B's iPhone macrumors regular

    B's iPhone

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    #1
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...-on-twitter-for-wearing-trump-2020-shirt.html

    This is nasty.
    Families were torn apart in a terrible shooting and there are people out there sick enough to blame it on anything other than the person who pulled the trigger.
    The media plays this off as the shooter was troubled and the gun went on the shooting spree.
    No way, that sick person shouldn’t have ever have been able to do what he did. He should have been locked up. The FBI was told twice that we know of and the local police had been on calls to his residence many times. He was a lunatic and it was documented.
    The gun didn’t do what happened, he did. And he shouldn’t have been allowed to walk among us and shouldn’t have had the opportunity to hurt the people he did.
    That girls father shouldn’t he chastised for who he voted for. New gun bans aren’t going to stop crazy people from doing crazy stuff. Fixing mental health and enforcing existing laws would do wonders.
    Rant off.
     
  2. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #2
    He also shouldn’t have been allowed to buy a gun before he could buy a six pack.
     
  3. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  4. B's iPhone thread starter macrumors regular

    B's iPhone

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    #4
    I’m torn on that too.
    He was old enough to carry a gun and defend his country.
    I lean more towards 18 being a full adult.
    If you can serve and vote you shouldn’t be restricted otherwise but that’s just my opinion.
     
  5. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #5
    Buy a long gun at 18, but gotta wait until you're 21 to get a pistol. Makes no sense.

    Why did Trump roll back the Obama EO preventing anyone with mental problems from buying guns?
     
  6. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #6
    You understand that order wasn't even in effect.
     
  7. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #7
    So why did Trump feel compelled to ruin something he'll now regret?
     
  8. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #8
    The NRA and the ACLU were both against that EO, if that doesn't tell you something I don't know what to tell ya.
     
  9. chagla macrumors 6502a

    chagla

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    #9
    why mass shootings only happen in America? dont' you think other countries have angry people, crazy people, disgruntled employees?
     
  10. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #10
    The poor father. I am not sure what's worse: the thought that perhaps some Russian troll was stirring things up on Twitter or some genuine village idiots were doing it (or both). In either case it's disgusting.

    First, all indications other than the mass shooting was that he guy was disturbed in the past, but we really do not know if he had diminished capacity when he conducted the shootings. He might just be plain evil, which is hard to detect. Second, you're right that an AR-15 ban would not prevent this guy from being disturbed, but it would have probably have reduced the number of people he killed and injured. In all honesty I fail to understand why pro-gun people do not acknowledge this fact. We arm our soldiers with rifles that have a high rate of fire, high power, and a large magazine capacity for one reason only: it is efficient in killing.
     
  11. webbuzz macrumors 68000

    webbuzz

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    #12
    I don't think she understands it at all.
     
  12. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #13
    You know what? There's no defending what the man's wearing. But you're right, now's not the time.

    However, I reserve the right to comment further on it at some point.
    I think she does. I think you're pretending you don't.

    The rule was finalized a month before Trump took office. No, it hadn't been fully implemented...but Trump could've let it. Trump was in office just over a month when Congress hurried through a bill revoking the executive order. Trump signed it.
     
  13. Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #14
    To appease his NRA Lobby-Masters, who give millions upon millions to his election (and later re-election) campaigns.
     
  14. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #15
    Because it's not a fact.
    Why do people keep pushing this false impression about the lethality of the AR-15.
    First, it's not a high powered rifle, it uses an intermediate powered cartridge. A 308 or 30-06 is high powered.
    Second, it's rate of fire is no different than any other semi auto firearm. They all fire one round per trigger pull. Rate of fire on a semi auto fully depends on how fast the shooter can pull the trigger.
    Third, high capacity magazines are available for just about any magazine fed weapon. Past events have proven that magazine size has little impact on fluid shooting scenarios where the shooter is mobile.
    They have plenty of time for mag swaps. A pinned down shooter could benefit from a higher cap mag, but a bit of practice with tactical swaps makes that moot as well.

    Again, the deadliest school shooting to date was committed with two semi auto pistols using 10 round magazines.
    This myth that the number of deaths would have been reduced had the guy not used an AR is patently false and easily disproved.
    The only advantage a rifle has over a pistol is range. In the majority of school shooting situations, range was not an issue. Almost all were shot well within the lethal range of the average pistol.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 22, 2018 ---
    When you have both the NRA and the ACLU coming out against this particular rule, you know it was a terrible idea.
    And it didn't block "everyone" with mental health problems, it just focused on VA and Social Security recipients. It went so far as to block people who simply needed help managing their money.
     
  15. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #16
    Wasting your breath, most of the people making these stupid arguments have never fired a gun and don't know the difference between semi-auto and auto weapons, nor do they care to educate themselves. If it looks like a military weapon it must have the same capabilities, banning ar15s would be a stepping point for them to get other rifles banned.

    If you hear the term "weapon of war" you can automatically turn your ears off, the person has been coached by the Democrat's playbook. You'll notice the same word get used over and over.
     
  16. VulchR, Feb 23, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018

    VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #17
    Well, one of the physicians treating the victims disagrees with you (see link). Apparently the AR-15 has sufficient power to cause damage by cavitation, and the physician attributes the death toll the widespread internal damage caused by the cavitation as the AR-15 ripped through children and staff at the school. The fact that you call the Ar-15 'medium power', when it is capable of creating an exit wound the size of an orange according to the source I referenced above, such suggests to me that the availability of rifles even more powerful than the AR-15 is something that needs to be considered as well. It's not as though people hunt elephants in the US.

    This is not just about rate of fire, but duration of sustained fire, accuracy of fire (including how recoil is absorbed), and the effects of the bullets. If the bullets are lethal enough to kill a human being with one shot, then imagine one life being destroyed per pull of the trigger. Sure, a semi-automatic rifle, unmodified, is not a machine gun, but it is still a very efficient weapon of murder. Just ask any soldier.

    I'd really love to see that hard evidence that magazine capacity has no effect, I really would. I guess our armies, and those of other nations, have been wrong all along in providing soldiers wepaons with high capacity magazines. They should go back to single-shot rifles... :rolleyes:

    Getting back to reality, perhaps the issue is not so much magazine size, but the detachable, interchangeable magazine. Most guns in the UK used for sport do not have such detachable magazines. Reloading entails inserting a new cartridge (or a few) one-at-a-time directly into the weapon, and, when I last checked, the sky wasn't falling in the UK because gun enthusiasts have to take some more time to reload. Meanwhile, kids in the US are being slaughtered.

    I am not a big fan of semi-automatic pistols either. You're really not helping the case against sensible gun regulation. The shooter in Florida simple decided to stop shooting, or at least that seems to be the case. The death toll would have been much higher had he continued, like the shooter in Vegas did (58 dead, 851 injured).

    You have presented no evidence, just opinion, and frankly your opinion sounds far-fetched since the military choose to arm soldiers with semi-automatic rifles very similar tot he AR-15 in design. The AR-15 might as well be a weapon of war.

    Shame on you. A bullet form a pistol and a bullet from a rifle are not the same and you know it. The most significant advantage of an AR-15 over a pistol is the greater amount of kinetic energy imparted by the bullet on impact, and the increased range (and accuracy because of the longer barrel length) only adds to the lethality.

    I apologise if my tone in this reply is abrupt, but the lame arguments by people opposing sensible gun regulation are really beginning to bother me, particularly when this reprehensible rhetoric seems to crescendo after mass murders committed with firearms designed for war.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 23, 2018 ---

    And you pro-gun guys just look like you want to be deaf, blind and dumb about these mass shootings that seem to occur far to regularly to be ignored. Again, shame on you.

    FWIW - I am no fan of shooting, but several people in my family shoot, my father hunted with a rifle (and also a bow), and one of my kids regularly wins competitions in sport shooting. All of these people I know use rifles or shotguns that entail some sort of skill to use. That typically means when hunting one-shot-one-kill. The idea of some clown pursuing deer with an AR-15 is laughable. The gun is not designed for serious sport shooting.
     
  17. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    #18
    Republicans actively obstruct fixing mental health and enforcing existing gun laws as well as gun reform.

    You can't say "I don't want to fix gun laws because the real problem is mental health." And then say "I'm taking away funding for mental health." And then expect people to not think you're just being an *******.
     
  18. Tech198 macrumors G5

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    #19
    umm.. people hate Trump, we know...

    but that's not the center here.... who cares what shirt he was wearing.
     
  19. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #20
    No reason ar15 can't be used for serious sport shooting, and in fact it is used very often for smaller game. Coyote hunting is one good example where you might have multiple targets. Ar15 is one of the most popular semi auto rifles in the US.
     
  20. Leguna24 Suspended

    Leguna24

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    #21
    Alex Jones and others like to lure the gullible trash and get them agitated over 2nd amendment (my guns are mine!!!!). And it works, obviously. While the US are the forerunner in many categories, they are hilarious in terms of guns, "kid kills instructor with UZI" has become almost an icon of amusing headlines from the US in regards to gun nut trash.

    (yeah, I know, this is why Trump won.. )
     
  21. SoggyCheese Suspended

    SoggyCheese

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    #22
    Thoughts and prayers, people, thoughts and prayers. They both got NASA to the Moon and defeated the Nazis. Don't knock a strategy that obviously works.
     
  22. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #23
    So, school children should risk getting murdered so hunters can pray-n-spray at coyotes? Which do you think is more important - school children's safety or being able to kill more than 1 coyote at a time?

    I get that the AR-15 is popular and that most people use it legitimately in a way that would harm nobody. The problem is that some people use the weapon for mass murder, for which it is efficient killing machine. However, there are priorities, and people can enjoy hunting and sport shooting without the need for a war weapon. I understand you are trying to defend a freedom set out in the Constitution, but our rights to freedom end where another's begin. No individual right is absolute, and the US needs to get its priorities straight.

    Most of my family in the US teach in Virginia. Not a year goes by in which some school kid is not found to have entered school grounds armed with a firearm. So far these kids have been detained by the police before any violence occurred, but it is just a matter of time. On top of all of the crap that teachers face, they now have to consider the 2017 equivalent of duck-and-cover drills. That ain't right.
     
  23. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #24
    Aside from looking cool there's nothing that separates an ar15 from any other rifle, large capacity magazines come for other weapons that actually have higher caliber bullets. If you ban ARs they will just choose the next most easily accessible weapon, not to mention that handguns are more likely to be used to murder someone in the US. It makes no sense to ban AR15s without first banning handguns completely. They are also semi automatic weapons.
     
  24. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #25
    They don’t.

    There are three times more guns per capita in the US than in Canada, but an American is six times more likely to die from gun violence than a Canadian.

    Of course we want to reduce the number of guns in the country, but there is clearly something else going on that has nothing to do with the availability of guns.
     

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27 February 20, 2018