Man shot by armed police on Tube

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iGav

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Mar 9, 2002
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"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him."
:eek: :eek: :eek:

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iGav

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Mar 9, 2002
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The man who was shot is reported to have been a suicide bomber.

And Reuters are reporting that armed police have surrounded a mosque in East London now.

Looks like it's all kicking off again.
 

Veldek

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Mar 29, 2003
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I can't believe they shot a man which they already controlled! He had to have something dangerous like a bomb belt or something. Otherwise the police overreacted in my eyes.

Edit: Ah, you cleared it up. It seems ok in this case. But it's horrible that these things don't seem to stop.
 

fitinferno

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Apr 7, 2005
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iGav said:
The man who was shot is reported to have been a suicide bomber.

And Reuters are reporting that armed police have surrounded a mosque in East London now.

Looks like it's all kicking off again.
I hope they catch all these people once and for all...I don't know about killing them at point-blank...but I guess they had no other choice?
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
witness said:
Why would then need to shoot him if they already had him on the floor?
Perhaps in case he had a rucksack with a bomb trigger inside? Shoot him so he can't hit the 'explode' option rather than have the tube blow up, kill a few people and suspend two lines indefinitely.

There's also no report that they shot to kill. They could have unloaded the five shots into limbs just to incapacitate him
 

fitinferno

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witness said:
Why would then need to shoot him if they already had him on the floor?
They must've had a darn good reason...otherwise there will be a lot of unhappy people since the Met can't interrogate someone who's dead :(
 

witness

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Applespider said:
Perhaps in case he had a rucksack with a bomb trigger inside? Shoot him so he can't hit the 'explode' option rather than have the tube blow up, kill a few people and suspend two lines indefinitely.

There's also no report that they shot to kill. They could have unloaded the five shots into limbs just to incapacitate him
fitinferno said:
They must've had a darn good reason...otherwise there will be a lot of unhappy people since the Met can't interrogate someone who's dead :(
Diatribe said:
Because if he had a bomb and actually would have used it many people would have died.
ok ok... ;)
 

mpw

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Jun 18, 2004
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witness said:
Why would then need to shoot him if they already had him on the floor?
As has already been said there may be a good reason like they were concerned he could still trigger a bomb etc.

But there have been a number of instances when Police shootings have been caught on film and shown they were not justified. I'm thinking of a couple in particular from America where it was reported as if no action was taken against the officers.
 

javiercr

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Apr 12, 2005
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it is very weird, in general police in the UK don't carry guns (for the surprise of americans), only some do and here in europe they're not into shooting like in the US, it's news everytime they fire the guns, so there must have been a very good reason....
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
Well, they've confirmed he's dead now and the police apparently are applying a 'shoot to kill' policy for suspect suicide bombers. I'm a little concerned about this since there are bound to be many Asian men walking around with large bags quite legitimately - what if they're going away for a weekend?

I'm becoming partial to the idea that if you are carrying a large rucksack/case, you have to check it into the station before going through the barriers. Since most consumers only carry small bags that shouldn't slow things down too much.

The BBC's eye-witness say that he was wearing a heavily padded 'winter' jacket but didn't notice a bag when he ran onto the Tube looking scared with men chasing them (I'm sure I'd look nervous too!)
 

skunk

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Jun 29, 2002
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Perhaps a little object lesson for other would-be copycats? Apparently the guy had already left a "smoking rucksack" on another train this morning.

Don't they know there's no smoking on the Tube these days?
 

fitinferno

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Apr 7, 2005
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Applespider said:
Well, they've confirmed he's dead now and the police apparently are applying a 'shoot to kill' policy for suspect suicide bombers. I'm a little concerned about this since there are bound to be many Asian men walking around with large bags quite legitimately - what if they're going away for a weekend?

I'm becoming partial to the idea that if you are carrying a large rucksack/case, you have to check it into the station before going through the barriers. Since most consumers only carry small bags that shouldn't slow things down too much.

The BBC's eye-witness say that he was wearing a heavily padded 'winter' jacket but didn't notice a bag when he ran onto the Tube looking scared with men chasing them (I'm sure I'd look nervous too!)
The idea of checking the large bag into the station before going through the barriers doesn't seem too bad. I.e. if you have to use the special luggage door, they should write your name down or something at least so there's accountability. I don't see it being feasible that they take the bag or search all the bags that go through there, though.

I think that the city's attempts to go all-Oyster are very good when things like this start to happen. Oyster cards offer a good range of accountability, much more than paper tickets ever could (however, since it allows for tracking your movements, I could see people screaming about breach of privacy). Unfortunately, with the idea of trying to go Oyster only, there is the problem of tourists. Getting tourists easily equipped with them could be very, very difficult...

Addendum: for people who don't know what an Oyster card is, it's like a ski pass type card that you can put tickets electronically onto.
 

geese

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Oct 23, 2003
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Applespider said:
Well, they've confirmed he's dead now and the police apparently are applying a 'shoot to kill' policy for suspect suicide bombers. I'm a little concerned about this since there are bound to be many Asian men walking around with large bags quite legitimately - what if they're going away for a weekend?
As someone who could fit the physical profile of a suspect, I'm feeling very nervous, I wish I cycled into work today, rather then took the tube.

I feel a little less self-concious on the tube when I've got my ipod shuffle on though. So if you see an uncommonly handsome asian man on the Central or Victoria line, listening to a shuffle (via Sony EX-81s) with a LSE satchell, THEN STOP LOOKING AT ME, I'M VERY FRIENDLY AND WONT HURT YOU!
 

skunk

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geese said:
So if you see an uncommonly handsome asian man on the Central or Victoria line, listening to a shuffle (via Sony EX-81s) with a LSE satchell, THEN STOP LOOKING AT ME, I'M VERY FRIENDLY AND WONT HURT YOU!
I appreciate your concern, but I'd lose the satchel for a bit if I were you...
:(
 

geese

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Oct 23, 2003
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skunk said:
I appreciate your concern, but I'd lose the satchel for a bit if I were you...
:(
How else am i gonna carry stuff though? Its only a small satchell. I'll just plod around on my bike from now on.
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
geese said:
As someone who could fit the physical profile of a suspect, I'm feeling very nervous, I wish I cycled into work today, rather then took the tube.
On the bus into Oxford St last night, there was a guy who fitted that 'suspect' profile complete with rucksack on the top deck - and a lot of people surreptiously watching over their Evening Standards, particularly when he starting rooting around in it. One woman got up and went downstairs at that point... and I didn't like myself for being suspicious. Then he pulled a chain with a crucifx on it from under his top and people relaxed.

If I spot you Geese, I'll smile rather than run off!
 

caveman_uk

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Feb 17, 2003
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Hitchin, Herts, UK
Applespider said:
Well, they've confirmed he's dead now and the police apparently are applying a 'shoot to kill' policy for suspect suicide bombers. I'm a little concerned about this since there are bound to be many Asian men walking around with large bags quite legitimately - what if they're going away for a weekend?
If you happen to be an asian with a large rucksack I guess the best policy is not to try and run away when challenged by armed police. It's likely to make them a bit, you know, nervous....

Personally I doubt the police would have shot him unless they thought he was going to detonate a bomb. He's worth more alive to them than dead.

I guess some lawyer will make some money out of this though...
 

fitinferno

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Apr 7, 2005
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geese said:
How else am i gonna carry stuff though? Its only a small satchell. I'll just plod around on my bike from now on.
Haha, I was gonna say something about if it's an LSE satchel, you know it's gonna be tiny...
 

geese

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Oct 23, 2003
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caveman_uk said:
Personally I doubt the police would have shot him unless they thought he was going to detonate a bomb. He's worth more alive to them than dead.

I guess some lawyer will make some money out of this though...
Couldn't they have knocked him unconcious though? It sounds like the police were a but overzealous, perhaps overcome with adrenaline. They need one of them alive.

I guess in that situation, if you think it could turn extremely nasty then you'd do the same as well.
 

iGav

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Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
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Applespider said:
Well, they've confirmed he's dead now and the police apparently are applying a 'shoot to kill' policy for suspect suicide bombers.
An ex-flying squad chief on Sky News has said that the 'Shoot to Stop' policy has been in effect for sometime now.

Applespider said:
I'm a little concerned about this since there are bound to be many Asian men walking around with large bags quite legitimately - what if they're going away for a weekend?
Well they've got nothing to fear then, but if armed Police ask you to hit the deck, you do what they say... one doesn't run off, vault the barriers of a tube station, run onto a tube train and grab another passenger.

It's reasonable to assume that these officers were acting on intelligence... not just some random 'hunch'.

It's scary to think though how much London is likely to change over the coming months and years.
 

AppleMatt

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Mar 17, 2003
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Peterkro said:
A darn good reason like he was carrying a table leg.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,1498392,00.html
A while ago the list of his previous convictions was published. Most were violent crimes, and many involved firearms including...yes you guessed it a sawn off shotgun.

I'd like to see you remain calm against him when he is pointing it at you, screaming and shouting. The law is clear, it doesn't matter if it's a banana under a bag, it will still be treated as a concealed weapon.

In my opinion the police did their job. So what he's dead, he caused misery to hundreds of people and cost the taxpayers thousands in convictions for his previous crimes. There's no point training armed police and then criticising on the few times when they do fire. Christ, in America standard police officers will open fire if you run away from them.

If you intend to create terror in Britain then by default you accept the consequences. There's no cloak and dagger here.

AppleMatt
 

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