Man With Gun Asserts His Rights

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Southern Dad, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #1
    Here's an interesting situation for this forum. Talk about a difficult issue to determine how one feels about this stop. No doubt that he knows his rights and the case law. However, the police are in a situation where they are getting complaints from citizens about an individual with a gun. Personally, I support the right to carry but I can see the officers side of wanting to check out who the individual is and make sure that he should have that weapon.

     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Citizens with cameras flexing their civil liberties.

    I've seen this show before.
     
  3. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #3
    The guy has gonads. I'll say that much knowing Portland as I do.
     
  4. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #4
    My thought was that this particular situation will really make most of us have to think to see how we feel about it. In this forum most that tend to support law enforcement, also support the right to keep and bear arms. While others, that tend to believe the police often overstep their authority, tend to be on the gun control side of things.

    When I saw the video it really made me have to think about it because I see both sides in this. I also thought that it would spark some pretty good conversation because we have to think about it.

    And yes, I agree he's got a pair of stones. For the record, I believe the officer did handle the situation appropriately. Now the camera may have contributed to this. If the original complainant calls back the police can tell them that they have checked him out and don't believe that he is a threat. Then thank them for their diligence.
     
  5. capathy21 macrumors 65816

    capathy21

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    #5
    I think the officer handled it perfectly. The officer would have no way of knowing if the man was a law abiding citizen, or a deranged lunatic ready to shoot someone. That's the problem I have with open carry, you never know the persons intent.
     
  6. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #6
    For full disclosure the Portland police department is being watched over by the federal government due to previous police killings.

    Not sure if that's why that particular policeman seemed so professional but portland has been known for excessive force for quit a while.
     
  7. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #7
    :D Why am I not surprised to see you fraun on civil liberties?

    ----------

    Sounds like nosey busybodies snitching and not minding their own business.
     
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Why am I not surprised you leap to poorly thought out conclusions?

    :D
     
  9. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #9
    I agree the officer seemed very professional in the way that he handled it. I'll be honest, open carry or concealed carry cause people to be nervous. A lot depends on the appearance of the person who is carrying. Is the sidearm in a holster or stuck in the waistband? Is it one of those idiots that were carrying AR-15's walking down the street? Seeing a properly holstered weapon on someone's side doesn't phase me. Someone carrying one in their hand? That's a different story.

    It is true that a properly concealed weapon, you may not notice but what if you did see it? Does it concern you?

    The camera may have had something to do with it or he could just be a professional officer.

    I'm not sure if you are serious but I don't think we should ever discourage citizens from reporting something if it makes the uncomfortable. We don't know the situation, it could be a parent who was concerned seeing someone they didn't know who was armed, it could be someone who thought that the person was up to no good.

    --------------------------------------------------

    One day, I was in a park where children were present. Two men were having a discussion, when I noticed the one man showing the other a weapon. He dropped the magazine and handed it to the other but did not rack the slide. The younger man was pointing it in a safe direction and looking through down the sights.

    I was only a few feet from them. No doubt that they noticed my .45 in my holster, I asked if I could see that weapon for a second. The owner nodded and the other handed it to me. I racked the slide, popping out the chambered round. I didn't have to say anything when I handed the weapon and round back to the owner, he realized that he had handed the other a live weapon.

    Sometimes, you need to say something when you see something not right.
     
  10. capathy21 macrumors 65816

    capathy21

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    #10
    This is one of the few threads where we pretty much agree completely:)

    As you stated, I really don't have a problem with an individual who has a gun properly holstered on his or her waist, and appears competent on how to handle it. What I do have a problem with, as you said, is those who strap Ar-15's on their shoulder to try to look bad ass, or those that may tuck in a waist band to look tough.

    Education or the lack thereof is my biggest concern with anyone being able to have a gun. Too many individuals do not know what they are doing, and they do not respect the power of a firearm. I believe someone should be required to take a detailed training course before being able to legally purchase a firearm in any state. I could go right now to my local sporting goods store and buy any gun they sell, however, I am not properly trained to the point of knowing that gun inside and out like you probably do.

    You stated the perfect example of the guys at the park. If you hadn't intervened, who knows what tragedy could have occurred.
     
  11. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #11
    Many people do not know that a gun shop can refuse to sell to anyone. That's right, they do not need a reason to refuse to sell to you. If they don't feel right about the sale, they can refuse. (I can't find a link to the law right now but there are a million plus examples on the web where people were refused) Anyway, a gun store that I visit will refuse a sale if you don't let the salesman demonstrate the operation of the weapon.

    When he first told me this I asked him how many times he had refused a sale for any reason. He told me that they refuse at least five sales a month. Person seems angry or nervous is number one reason.
     
  12. zin macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Another loony who wants attention on YouTube.

    I get that he wants to protect his rights but really? The officer said they received many calls from the public. Is it really an inconvenience for this guy to give his ID so the officer can reassure any other members of the public that everything is fine and the guy isn't a crazed nut?

    This guy is causing more trouble than enough and is probably one of those conservatives that insist on small government and lower spending. The irony is that he is most likely causing the police department to waste money and resources by taking yet more calls from the public and assigning a different officer to investigate a few hours later. If he cleared up his situation then any future calls for that day could easily be discarded and the callers reassured.

    The ID could have been checked and the situation dealt with within about 60 seconds. The video is over 3 minutes song. That is 2 minutes those officers could have been on their way to another call that is no doubt more urgent than this.

    What on earth does he think will happen if they scan his ID? They're running checks to make sure he isn't a crazy loon that some public calls no doubt suspected. Why is this so difficult to understand for this man? They're not running his ID so they know who to target when tyranny finally approaches. :confused:
     
  13. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #13
    you are acting because of the gun, remove the gun from the equation & know your rights.

    here.
    http://news.yahoo.com/django-unchained-actress-arrested-suspicion-prostitution-112513759.html
     
  14. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #14
    While I agree that his asserting his rights did delay the issue and leave questions, he seems to be correct on what he tells them is the law.

    When someone refuses to identify themselves does that make the officer wonder why they are refusing? I agree that people have a right to refuse this but sometimes I wonder if it is worth the hassle of refusing. Here in Georgia we often have random driver's license checks where everyone driving down a particular sidewalk… I mean road are asked for their driver's license.
     
  15. Technarchy, Sep 18, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014

    Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

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    #15
    So the question I always have about these situations is are the police operating within their legal authority.

    Having a badge and a gun means nothing in itself. Every action must feed into a written law, and not jack booted thug prerogative.

    Is carry a gun in itself a crime?

    No?

    Then under what authority is the cop attempting to detain, question or demand identification?

    Doesn't matter if it makes the weak kneed squirm. That's not a legal reason to harass another citizen.

    It's a very dangerous thing when cops attempt to operate outside the framework of the rule of law. It should never happen. I don't care if someone is driving with a ton of cocaine and a dead hooker in the trunk. If they aren't in observed violation of a real law, then leave them alone.

    No, beating someones ass first, and then accusing them of resisting arrest is not a violation of a law, but rather JBT antics.

    And I would need to see the law on the books that says you are required by law to identify yourself to a cop because he feels like bugging you. In my mind that isn't a good reason ever, and could run afoul of the 5th amendment, because whenever you say anything to a cop you're probably risking self incrimination.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #16
    I personally think the random checks/DUI checkpoints are illegal.
     
  17. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #17
    In some states they are illegal. However, Georgia isn't one of them. Apparently, no one has successfully argued this matter with the Supreme Court of the USA, thus far.
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #18
    shame really, I got stopped 5 times last labor day weekend for no freaking reason other than being on the road.
     
  19. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Huh...I've mostly seen the exact opposite. That those who are big on guns are also much more weary of police. I, for one, support law enforcement and wish they could do more, while I am not a big fan of guns, especially carrying.

    Some dude walking down my street with a gun strapped to him (I'm not talking about someone with a holstered weapon) is most certainly going to be my business. I honestly don't give two rats' asses about his so-called rights. He can shove them down his pants to help fill the bulge.

    So, just a guy walking down the street?

    I have no doubts he was serious. It follows a pattern.

    I still honestly don't get what the issue is with an officer just confirming that someone carrying a gun is legally authorized to do so. It just plain baffles me why this is an issue.

    I don't know where you tend to hang out, but I'm glad I'm not there. You seem to see a lot of people with guns, whether on them or handling them in public places. In my 40 years, I'm not even sure I could count the number of times I've seen this on one hand. I can only remember one instance in the last 12 years.
     
  20. Meister, Sep 18, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014

    Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #20
    You don't care about other peoples rights?
    Well they shouldn't give a **** about your rights then, too.

    I don't even know how to reply to this. The kinda **** one reads on these forums ...:p:D

    I know: I think people should be armed at all times just defend themselves from people like you.
     
  21. aerok macrumors 65816

    aerok

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    #21
    Huh? How does that make any sense at all?
     
  22. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #22
    While I sympathise with not acquiescing to unreasonable demands from the police, he's lucky he still has gonads.
     
  23. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #23
    The week of July 4th they had many of these sobriety checkpoints set up. I drove into the same one several times one night as it was between two buildings where I had duties. I passed through the same checkpoint going the opposite direction about 20 minutes apart… the very same officer gave me the very same lines…

    But what about his rights? After all, he is not being detained for any crime? I see your point that it is very easy and reasonable to identify yourself when a law enforcement officer asks you to do so but you are not required to do so. Odd twist.

    I do live, work and play in counties of Georgia that have high gun ownership. It is not unusual to see someone with a holstered weapon. I'm not saying that everyone is packing visible heat but a day doesn't go by that I don't see someone carrying. It also could be that I notice it far more often as it is one of the things that I happen to notice quickly.
     
  24. zin macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Well yeah, that's why the officers are there, because members of the public saw a guy with a gun out on the street. If he didn't have a gun then none of this would have happened because nobody would've called the police. :confused::confused:

    I know he has the right to do it. I don't think he should have the right to waste police time. The officers were responding to a call as they are required to do. There is nothing fishy about it. They get a call from worried members of the public and so they send an officer.

    What is so difficult for the guy to be a little more cooperative? Giving his ID so the officers can make sure the weapon isn't stolen or he isn't a felon would clear everything up. This doesn't infringe on his rights, nor does it mean he is surrendering his rights. It would've taken 60 seconds at most. The officers could've notified their HQ so call operators know to discard future calls matching his description for that day. The officers were not his enemy. They were not hostile. All they wanted to do is scan his ID to clear everything up.

    I mean, really. What does he think is going to happen? That he's going to get watched every day because he gave them his ID? Believe me, I'm sure the police have better things to do than spy on an arrogant gun owner with a huge attention-seeking ego.
     
  25. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #25
    police are wasting HIS time, just like they did mine with their freaking DUI stops.
     

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