Marines urinate on dead Taliban fighters.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by NutsNGum, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. NutsNGum macrumors 68030

    NutsNGum

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    #1
  2. ct2k7 macrumors 603

    ct2k7

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    #2
    I don't care who the hell is dead, but a little respect for the dead, please. Is that too much to ask?
     
  3. ChristianJapan, Jan 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012

    ChristianJapan macrumors 601

    ChristianJapan

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    #3
    Simply not acceptable ... And very disturbing. Both sides should respect each other at least "after fact".

    Lucky enough for myself I never had to go to war. But I can believe I understand that attending a war is changing people. I wish that the soldiers would receive proper training and supervision to avoid such situations. The Problem is: it just create more hate on the other side and lead to further escalation.
     
  4. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    These sort of photos are one of the best means of recruiting radicals to their cause.

    It's the reason sane countries hold human rights so dear.
     
  5. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #5
    I hope you guys were just as outraged when dead coalition soldiers were dragged through the streets or hung from a bridge with their entrails hanging out.
     
  6. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    Yes, but we're 'supposed' to be civilised. That's why we're there isn't it? Spread western democracy and law - stamp out terrorism.

    I can totally understand the feelings of these soldiers - they've probably lost close friends in the most difficult of circumstances. This is a serious breakdown of discipline though, and shouldn't be happening.
     
  7. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    Isn't dealing with the dead covered by the Geneva Conventions? In which case this surely must be a breach...

    In any event, Court Martial the Marines in question, and notify the rest of the armed forces about proper treatment of the dead.

    But of course... why wouldn't I be?
     
  8. Happybunny, Jan 12, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012

    Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    Well I can well image how certain section of the worlds population is going to react. To the urination.

    Not coming close but do you remember how the press in the UK reacted?
    [​IMG]
     
  9. NutsNGum thread starter macrumors 68030

    NutsNGum

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    #9
    Charlie Gilmour, get off that cenotaph, this instant!
     
  10. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #10
  11. BreakGuy macrumors 6502a

    BreakGuy

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    The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the Taliban because they are considered unlawful enemy combatants as they belong to no particular country (they're a religious extremism group) and they fail to wear a uniform of an army. Additionally the Taliban didn't sign the Geneva Conventions (because they can't - they're not a country) and so due to the aforementioned reasons their existence is ignored and they have no protection under the Conventions.

    Doesn't mean to say that the US Marines should be urinating on the deceased though.
     
  12. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #12
    Being outraged at someone defiling a corpse should not be unique to one side or the other. In the fog of was everyone is capable of behaving like an animal. U.S. soldiers are no "exception."

    However, what these soldiers, like those at Abu Graihb, have done is to harden their enemy and recruit others to the enemy cause. They indirectly will likely lead to the deaths of many of their comrades.
     
  13. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    I take the point you are making, but would add that it isn't certain... there is a certain amount of legal discussion to be had. For example, Afghanistan did sign the conventions, but were the Taliban the legal rulers or just occupiers? In 2002 he US government did state the conventions would apply to Taliban fighters, but not Al Qaeda, yet not POW status. It would be a messy case to be involved in if it were ever tested in court!

    Anyway, I agree that technical legal reasons aside, this is still immoral.
     
  14. soco macrumors 68030

    soco

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    The biggest thing I took away from this is that it puts our soldiers at greater risk of retaliation attacks. This group of boys need to understand the lives they're putting at risk by batting the hornets' nest.
     
  15. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    This is treading dangerously close to calling them 'sub human' . To people of my age, that sends chills down our backs.
     
  16. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #16
    No, it's a valid and interesting legal argument. The Conventions are carefully worded and one could argue about their legal applicability. However, BreakGuy was pretty clear in stating that doesn't make this morally ok.

    Plus remember the Geneva Conventions are the most famous rules of war, but not the only ones. Just because they may not legally apply, doesn't mean others may not. Including perhaps the US miliary's own rules.
     
  17. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    I remember people saying that the US soldiers deserved what they got because they were an invading force in an unjust cause.

    The enemy over there is already hardened in a way that westerners will never understand. This is a holy war. No quarter. No outcome other than complete victory will ever be acceptable.

    The removal of troops from the region without completely and utterly destroying the Taliban will only lead to continued decades of war. Nothing was gained. Lives were thrown away, because we don't have the stomach to finish the job - where they do, no matter how long it takes.
     
  18. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #18
    My bold added.

    Are you serious?

    Because your idiot ex-president called it a crusade does not make it one.
     
  19. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    What I was trying to show with the photo of Gilmore.

    To person from the Netherlands, this photo causes no reaction.
    But photo caused quite a bit of offense in the UK, to a certain group of the population. To the right wing press it was little more than 'Charlie Gilmour, get off that cenotaph, this instant!'
     
  20. BreakGuy macrumors 6502a

    BreakGuy

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    #20
    In WWII, German Nazi Soldiers landed on American soil, ditched their uniforms and donned civilian attire so to go unnoticed and planned to sabotage targets in the United States. Being captured by the FBI and tried in the Supreme Court which ruled against them for reasons being they had violated the laws of war by being out of uniform.

    Same thing happened during 9/11. Combatants, posing as civilians hijacked 4 American aircraft and killed thousands of innocent civilians (another violation of the Geneva Conventions). These Taliban fighters are not in uniform, belong to not particular nation and deliberately kill thousands of civilians (not to mention international troops).

    I cannot for the life of me see why any member of the Taliban or Al Qaeda should be granted protection under the Geneva Conventions.
     
  21. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    Yes, I am serious because I actually understand what's going on over there, rather than simple listen to the rhetoric in Washington, from both sides.

    The future will prove me right.

    Living outside the US in a muslim country gives me a different perspective than most here.
     
  22. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #22
    Yes, but should we be better than them, or descend to the same level of barbarity?

    What point is this fight if we loose our own humanity and morals as part of the process?

    That's the attitude of pretty much any native guerrilla group towards an incoming force.

    They have nowhere to go, and they're fighting for their existence. They don't have anything to loose. Fighting from that position is a lot more motivating than being a member of a professional army fighting away from home.

    ----------

    I'm not sure how that is relevant. Urinating on a corpse is pretty universally unacceptable isn't it? You don't have to be a Taliban to find that shocking.
     
  23. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #23
    I'm not defending their actions, just asking the hypocrites to denounce both sides when the behavior is outrageous, and not justify one and condem the other.
     
  24. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #24

    Yes, just like emigrating to the UK automatically elevates my opinion on UK landforces, operations and NATO strategy to unassailable status on an online forum.
     
  25. Votekinky06 macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Stupid, and disgusting. Nothing more than unnecessary provocation .
     

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