McCain: "...the Constitution established the U.S....as a Christian nation"

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    CNN

    I don't know how he was "misinterpreted", but I'm not crazy about his other comment either: "I prefer someone who has a grounding in my faith." (emphasis mine)
     
  2. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    He certainly has the right to state his personal opinion. He used the word "I" and not "we" in stating his preference.
     
  3. Dybbuk macrumors 6502a

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  4. FrankBlack macrumors 6502

    FrankBlack

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    Yes, McCain does indeed have the right to state his opinion. And others have the freedom to disagree. Having said that,,,

    Doesn't the constitution say that congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of any religion, or prohibit the practice of same?

    Of course, they didn't have moonies back then,,,,:eek:
     
  5. szark macrumors 68030

    szark

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    I think that those who believe the Constitution establishes a Christian nation interpret this statement as: Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of any Christian religion, or prohibit the practice of same.

    They're wrong, of course.
     
  6. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    The social conservatives have made this argument for years. They believe it, but it does not hold-up under scrutiny. America was founded upon liberalism. No real debate on that.
     
  7. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    No one is arguing that he doesn't have the right to say it, we just think it was a stupid thing for someone running for President to say. For him to backtrack and say it was misinterpreted is stupid as well, since it was obvious what he said and what he meant. It's a shame really, as I used to respect him, but with this and all of the other things he's been doing lately, he's lost my support. Judging by poll numbers, I'm not alone.

    It's funny, if you would have said to me just a few years ago that I'd sooner vote for Hillary than McCain, I would have laughed in your face.
     
  8. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    You know, the fact that McCain said it...I'll bet most of the other Republican candidates agree with him (whether they'll publicly say so or not).

    To me, anyone who believes that is not fit for office.

    So then what am I to think of the 55% of Americans who also believe it? That they're not fit to vote?
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    Just another indication that McCain is incapable of running the country. The man has truly lost his mind. I'm thinking Alzheimer's is in his near future, if it's not taken hold already. This is certainly not the McCain who ran against Bush.
     
  10. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    Did he also hire George W. Bush as a speech writer? :confused:
     
  11. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

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    I don't really see a problem with this comment. I think most everyone would prefer somone with similar beliefs to their own including religious (or non-religious) beliefs. I wouldn't have a problem with a muslim saying this, an athiest saying this, a jew saying this, or a wiccan saying this.

    The rest of his comments about America being a Christian nation can be argued all day and not really come up with a clear answer. There is a lot of evidence on both sides.
     
  12. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    I have a problem with it. This is a perfect example of the kind of causal religious bigotry that has become so common and accepted in this country. McCain tried to cover his bias with the old "Judeo-Christian" fig leaf, but the reality of his remarks remains: he believes a Christian is inherently more qualified to run the country than a member of another religion. If he'd have said that a white person was fundamentally more qualified than a black one, then hardly anyone would mistake the bigotry for anything else. But say it about a person's religion, and some find it not only acceptable, but laudable.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    I have a problem with it too. Adding to what IJ said, this is the same guy who just 7 years ago said that the religious right had too much influence in the Republican party, and now he says this crap? One can only conclude that he's either lying to get elected or losing his mind. I vote for both.
     
  14. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    What's most amazing is that people in Arizona still love him for some reason. If he doesn't win the nomination, you can expect to see him in the Senate as long as he keeps running for his seat.

    I don't understand why people love him, and whenever I ask one of his supporters, they aren't ever able to give a reason besides "He's a war hero" or something as equally ridiculous.
     
  15. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #15
    You should. You may well feel more comfortable with people who share your values, but this has little to do with faith, or, for that matter, with race, gender or sexual orientation either.
     
  16. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    Going alone the lines of Lee's posts, I think lots of McCain's support is grounded in what he used to be, not what he is now.

    I'm still in awe of how difficult is for some people to see the difference between a "Christian Nation" and a nation mainly founded by Christians. I don't think anyone would call America a "White Nation" or a "European Nation" just because it was mainly founded by white people from across the pond. Ugh, FFS people, the Constitution, not a religious text, lays out the frame work for this country.


    Lethal
     
  17. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    I'm not sure this is necessarily true -- values and other cultural issues can certainly become entwined to the extent that it's impossible to separate the value from the source. My objection is to these values being translated into a political preference, to what amounts to a statement of religious qualifications for office.
     
  18. halfprep455 macrumors regular

    halfprep455

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    I don't even think it really matters what McCain says anymore. His pres campaign was over before it started. He will always only be a senator from Arizona. His time is long gone.
     
  19. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    McCain...he says what he means and then backpedals. If he would prefer that a Christian win the presidency he should say so and then stick by his opinion...Ever since the "I have a Scream" sound bite politicians are so increasingly careful with what they say that all political debate has been robbed of substance, if it had any to begin with.

    Slightly OT, but...

    I have to disagree. The "founding fathers", with a few exceptions, were all members of the societal elite in the United States. From the British perspective they were political radicals, but from the point of view of the vast majority of the people in the colonies they were conservatives who sought to preserve the status quo. After the Revolution, the top of the social hierarchy (the British Monarchy and imperial bureaucracy) had been removed, and the only difference to Ye Joe Blowe colonist was that he payed taxes to Congress and the President rather than King and Parliament.

    I would have to say that, looking at the founding of the US from the perspective of the "founding fathers", it is a nation founded by rich white men in order to throw off the yoke of other rich white men far away but maintain control over middling and poor white men at home...and everyone else as well (women/children/non-whites), when any thought is given to them at all. The only real change in the wake of the Revolution was that the heirarchy was decapitated, leaving the colonial elite on top.

    The Constitution is to a great extent a product of the Enlightenment, and over the years the language of the Enlightenment has been interpreted much more literally than it would have been by most people in the 18th century. Much like the Magna Carta, (perhaps even more so), the Constitution as a living document may still say the same things it did when it was written, but few of them mean now what they meant then. The issue, of course, is just what does it all mean to us now?
     
  20. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

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    I feel that a Christian is inherently more qualified to lead our country in the direction I want it to go than a non-christian. Someone who truly follows the guidance of Jesus Christ would make, in my opinion, a wonderful president. That is not bigotry. There is no intolerance of other's opinions, lifestyles, or identities. It is a personal opinion and preference.

    You can call this religious prejudice if you want to but calling it religious bigotry is wrong. There is no hatred, hostility, or intolerance of people with differing views.

    If McCain had stated that he felt that people of other religions should not be allowed to be president, than it would be bigotry. He simply stated an opinion of his preference.

    What if a black man had said, "I would prefer a president of my own race." What if an athiest said, "I would prefer a president that didn't focus his life on religion." Most people would prefer a president that is similar to themselves.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Pinochet, Franco and David Duke are/were all good Christians. So were the Americans who were responsible for slavery and genocide. Shared faith means very little.
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Many who call themselves Christians are bigoted, racist and homophobic.
     
  23. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    Why? What exactly makes them more qualified? Are you saying you'd rather have a dunce there who prays, rather than someone with an outstanding political, legislative and academic record?
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    Thank you for a refreshingly clear analysis, all too often overlooked.
     
  25. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #25
    Bush says he's a Christian. Do you think he's qualified? Do you honestly think that he's made a better president than say, Al Gore? Or actually, anyone else for that matter?

    He's also acted in all sorts of prejudicial ways.
     

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