Media credit Katie Bowman as creator of blackhole picture

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by linuxcooldude, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. linuxcooldude, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019

    linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #1
    While a team of 200 members and outside astronomers help create the stunning picture of the blackhole, it seems the media want to make Kathy the spoke person. While she contributed just 2500 lines of code to the total of around 800,000 which was done primarily by a male team member. I can't blame Kate herself as she didn't solely take credit as she aways said it was a team effort.

    Many media outlets credit Katie with leading the project, it was actually lead by Shep Doeleman according to the New York Times.

    https://hybridtechcar.com/2019/04/1...e-the-first-black-hole-photograph-in-history/
     
  2. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    #2
    [​IMG]

    I still very distinctly remember a previous time journalists tried spinning science and gender into a wave of clickbait.
     
  3. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Location:
    Rock Ridge, California
    #3
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...iscredit-katie-boumans-black-hole-project.amp
    Have some people become so sensitive they can’t celebrate someone’s success?
     
  4. AustinIllini macrumors demi-goddess

    AustinIllini

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #4
  5. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #5
    Lines of code is a really poor metric here, and it's kind of missing the point. I also wouldn't say this is all programming effort. You can see at least a part of their codebase here. It's not particularly arcane or anything. The focus on this component and lines of code seems like nonsense to me.

    I agree with the point about gender spinning clickbait though. Most of the articles that take this angle turn out to be shallow representations, as they are just after the ad impressions.
     
  6. DeepIn2U macrumors 603

    DeepIn2U

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    #6
    odd about the wording ...
    I thought a picture is taken not 'created' ??
     
  7. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #7
    Found something, Shep Doeleman seems to be the principal investigator. Much of the time a professor may be listed as principal investigator, but their graduate students typically do most of the non - bureaucratic day to day stuff. On journal or conference publications that don't order by author's last name (varies by research area), a principal investigator is often listed last, whereas whatever grad student was charged with the submission may be first.

    Doeleman is listed as a senior research fellow. That might be a title for someone who isn't tenure track and primarily focuses on research. I didn't look too hard into the designation. I haven't located any information indicating whether Bowman was in fact leading it in any capacity. She seems to have presented on it. This isn't always an indicator, but I would be surprised if she lacked a major role in it.

    On a side note, I do think the tendency to report these kinds of things (at a more general level) as single person feats is incredibly dishonest. One person's role may have been integral, but no one accomplishes something at this scale as a solo effort. As the op mentioned, Bowman herself doesn't seem to follow that narrative.
     
  8. eatrains macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    #8
    Lines of code is a terrible way to measure credit. I could copy and paste in hundreds of thousands lines of raw data, doesn’t mean I did anything.

    Just accept that a woman was capable of something. It’ll be ok.
     
  9. RichardMZhlubb, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019

    RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #9
    Wow, what an embarrassing post. As has been pointed out by others, the argument is just sexist trolling. And, I made the mistake of clicking on the linked article and it is just a piece of obviously worthless crap. It’s barely coherent and it refers to Bouman, a 29-year-old woman, as a “girl” throughout.* You should be ashamed of yourself for perpetuating this sexist garbage.

    _________
    *Her name is Katie Bouman. The article couldn’t even get her name right. It calls her Kathy Bowman in the headline.
     
  10. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #10
  11. ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #11
    This is how great discoveries/inventions/achievements often go. We want one great person, a genius or hero, to ascribe the achievement or discovery to, but often it's a collaborative (or cumulative) effort and there isn't a single person responsible. Perhaps the collaborative effort is simply less interesting. Perhaps we want to believe we can be a singular great individual. There's less glory in twenty people contributing a smaller piece than in one person coming up with it all on their own.
     
  12. linuxcooldude thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #12
    Is that woman speak for "Oh, no you didn't!"
    --- Post Merged, Apr 14, 2019 ---
    It's not a photograph. I think it's data that had to be processed by half a dozen radio telescopes?
     
  13. AustinIllini macrumors demi-goddess

    AustinIllini

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #13
    I wouldn't know
     
  14. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #14
    The paper describing the Higgs Boson Mass has 5154 authors, decribed collectively as "
    The ATLAS and CMS Collaborations". The preprint consists of 45 pages.
    pp 1-10 the paper itself
    pp 11-14 the references
    pp 15-31 lists the members of the ATLAS collaboration
    pp 32-45 lists the members of the CMS collaboration.
     
  15. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Location:
    Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
    #15
    Not just here but quite literally everywhere.

    It’d be like evaluating the contributions of a manager by how many words he uses in his memos.
     
  16. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #16
    Q Where do mansplainers get their water.
    A From a well, actually
     
  17. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Location:
    Rock Ridge, California
    #17
    It's time like these you realize that many who like to call others snowflakes or whatever else, are the most fragile & softest of all.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/13/18308652/katie-bouman-black-hole-science-internet
     
  18. Huntn, Apr 14, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019

    Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #18
    Just another uppity woman... :rolleyes::oops:
    --- Post Merged, Apr 14, 2019 ---
    I am by no means anyone who knows anything, but my impression is that many space pictures are created with electronic data and manipulated. In this case multiple telescopes contributed.
     
  19. linuxcooldude thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #19
    The Verge aka now owned by VOX Media. Reason I stop reading that tech sight long ago. At least Verge got it somewhat right. Other news sites reported she led the team responsible for the picture of the blackhole. She was only one of the four teams and that was just for I believe the 30-40 computer scientists. Not counting the rest of the teams for the 160 remaining team members.

    The rest:

    The typical SJW nonsense that the Verge now spews...Women are cited less, because of more men are in hard sciences than women....They are paid less because they work less hours along with other women's choices ( Why Men earn More, Warren Farrell )
     
  20. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Location:
    Rock Ridge, California
    #20
    Yeah, yeah Vox is bad for reasons. We know. But they got stuff right, so they are bad. They got stuff right, except the parts that you didn't like, so they are bad, we know.

    Like I said, makes you realize to pay more attention to people who like to label with 'snowflake' & 'sjw'. This has made me realize that perhaps when someone yells out 'sjw', what they are really telling you is a variation of that old commercial, 'soft just like a woman'.

    Still missing the forest for the trees to find some outrage, and not see a bunch of easily offended little boys hurt because a woman got a lot of attention.
     
  21. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #21
    Most people remember Von Braun, and his was definitely a team effort. I am pretty sure not many people can name any member of his team.
     
  22. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #22
    I find it absolutely amazing that you are attacking a source, considering the piece of garbage you linked to to start this whole discussion.
     
  23. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #23
    I read the article you posted and a few others. People need to stop getting their news from reddit and memes and assume it's going to be gospel.
     
  24. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #24
    The picture was “created” from numerous radio telescope arrays from around the world, not optical telescopes. Together the 5+ petabytes of data was processed over the course of many months to indeed “create” a visual representation of the black hole. There’s some interpolation and artistic license in order to get to the picture that’s been created.
     
  25. laptech, Apr 15, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019

    laptech macrumors 6502

    laptech

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Location:
    Earth
    #25
    Many news outlets have reported the correct version of her contribution to the project with regards to the fact that she is the team lead for the 'algorithm team', an algorithm she started 3yrs ago.

    The quoted article in the OP's post does Dr. Bouman a disservice by persistently referring Dr. Bouman as a 'girl' instead of a 'woman'.

    Update:

    Part i forgot to mention is that do not be fooled by the media working their 'spin' on this as it is in some way them who should be applauded for putting her on this 'pedestal' that she so rightly deserves as some kind of 'Woman in Science' thing because it is not.

    It is in fact many in the science community around the world who are saying Dr Bouman deserves the recognition and putting her on that pedestal because without her algorithm, picture of what a black hole looks like would still go undiscovered, black hole data that as it happens has been collected since 2012 and no one knowing how to put all the pieces together until Dr Bouman came along.
     

Share This Page

26 April 13, 2019