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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by stevento, May 8, 2008.
there is hope yet.
No there isn't. You can give her FL and MI as they voted, giving not a single delegate to Obama from MI, and she'd STILL be behind in popular vote and delegates.
Especially since they'd probably just split the delegates from those states anyway and the situation would remain the same.
Obama is going to win, letting FL and MI revote would just make people feel good. So a bunch of idiots who couldn't follow a simple rule don't get "disenfranchised."
It's totally obvious from outside the US (I'm English and in England) that Clinton and Obama are busy destroying the democrat party and burying the chances of either democratic 'winner' taking the presidential vote against the Republicans.
It's equally obvious that Clinton has been trailing for months.
So the questions I guess I would put to democrats is... what sort of a leader is Clinton if she's willing to put herself before the good of her party and the country?
I fail to see how Obama has been trying to destroy the party.
However, at this point Hillary has become a mad dog who desperately needs to be put down. It should be obvious to all paying that Clinton is the same as her husband- she does what's good for her, not what's right or what's good for the country. This is why I couldn't stand her husband. I don't want a repeat of that, and it's clear now that she would be.
There are 2 very good reasons for her to stay in the race right now.
1) West Virginia
Right now Obama is trailing both by large margins and if she were to withdraw now, he'd lose to someone who isn't even running. That's an attack ad that almost writes itself. If the two of them can focus on the issues and how their solutions are better than the GOPs rather than back and forth attacks they might actually be able to salvage some of the animosity between their supporters and keep the spotlight off of McCain for a few more weeks. If the attack ads stop, I'd be willing to bet that there was a back door concession where she'll run (nicely) so he doesn't have to lose to no-one and both will be working at shoring up support for the party among their constituents to avoid people voting against their views out of spite.
You've taken some liberties with the title of this thread, stevento. I'd go with:
Clinton supporter trying to hold Democratic Party hostage
He's not doing this for the voters of Michigan or Florida. He's doing it for his candidate. And it's disgraceful. He's threatening to withhold support for down ballot candidates if the party doesn't acquiesce to his demands.
You should NOT be championing this kind of behavior. It's despicable.
I read on HuffPo that Hillary's staying in to get all the votes she can, then making one last pass at the s-delegates in June. If that doesn't play out, she'll drop and use the leverage for a different position, Senate Majority Leader, I guess. Whatever job Harry Reid is (or isn't ) doing right now.
Either way, even those margins don't give her much help.
She still wouldn't be winning. Hilary needs 100% of the next four primaries to catch up to Obama...
I agree whole-heartedly. Consider also the fact that Mr. Weinstein has been talking with Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House--not Howard Dean, president of the Democratic National Committee. This suggests to me that Mr. Weinstein is trying to make an end-run around the DNC rather than go through the proper methods.
stevento: When are you going to ****ing realize that the rules matter? This isn't an issue of moral justice, in which case I say that moral justice would trump a rule. This is a case of a political process in which the rules were clearly laid out. The rules have not morally undermined anybody in this process; however, people flouting the rules have.
Is the contest about delegates anymore? Or is it about demographics?
It's about Hillary, silly.
Did you even read the post?
I was saying a good reason for her to stay would be so that Obama doesn't lose those primaries to someone who isn't currently running, which there is a good chance that could happen. At least this way there was genuine opposition and no ads can come out lambasting him for losing to essentially no-one.
If the attacks on both sides stop, I'm willing to bet she'll drop out on June 4th or shortly thereafter and she's already basically conceded but is helping utilize this time to highlight how their plans which are very similar are better than the GOP's plans while the Democrat race is in the headlines. This keeps McCain out of the picture and allows for the wounds of her constituency to heal a bit and eases into them voting for Obama, rather than voting for McCain out of spite.
I never meant to imply that her wins there would somehow bump her into the nomination, just that it is less embarrassing for Obama to lose those primaries with an actual opponent running, rather than losing to a candidate who is no longer running.
at this point there is absolutely no reason not to revote MI/FL because someone's willing to drop the cash. there's WV, KN, and OR. MI/FL have over 300 pledged delegates between them so the magic number would move from 2025 to 2350 at least.
with FL/MI there are over 450 pledged delegates left to be gotten and obama is 170 or so ahead. give hillary 60% of of what's left and she'll narrow the pledged gap and have the popular vote. she'll tell the supers "i've got more votes and i'm stronger in november" and she's the nod.
They have 368 moving the magic number 184 + 2025 to 2209, you only need one more than half not all 368 to win...
Media Mogul Harvey Weinstein: I'll pay for Florida-Michigan Revotes!
Just another king-maker wanna-be.
Screw him, and his millions.
There's a very good reason. If you're losing, you don't suddenly get to change the rules you agreed to in the first place to benefit you. That's called what? C-H-E-A-T-I-N-G.
Yeah- I read it, and it's pointless if it doesn't help her. She still loses the nomination and quite honestly, I don't see anyone using it against him.
if they do revote, it will only solidify Obama's nomination, as it is obvious that they would pretty much split the vote. so it would likely be a good thing (if a complete waste of money).
I am sure that the Obama camp would be fine with a revote, while the opposite is true with hillary's side, although of course they could never come out and actually say it.
stevento, please sit down.
The reason all of these people are here is because you've got a problem, and they care about you and want to help you. But first you have to want to get help.
You should know by now that Hillary supporters can't do math....that's why she's still in this
The media would have fun with it for at least a few days, and if they'd quite tearing each other down, they could turn the next month towards the issues and how their 95% similar plans are much better than McCain's while McCain can be held out of the headlines as the focus is on the Dems, and if they're not attacking they might actually ease some of the animosity in their supporters and limit the number of people voting for McCain out of spite.
And as an added bonus we won't have to see the threads about how he lost primaries to Clinton and she wasn't even running.
Oh- you must mean all the threads stevento starts.
Not a very good one.
It's over, but she'll keep going as long as she can, and hopefully dig herself out of that money whole she's in. Even then I'm sure some people will still hold out hope. For some reason none of us will ever understand.
i completely reject the idea that this extended race is bad for the party. eventually yes it has to end but we are not at that point yet
were registering literally millions of new voters as democrats in these states like OR and KY
hillary and obama take up all the media attention. this race isn't even about john mccain right now
if hillary was going to quit because of difficult math she would have quit 2 1/2 months ago.