Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...("National Security" argument redux)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by sysiphus, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. sysiphus macrumors 6502a


    May 7, 2006

    Apparently an anti-counterfeiting treaty is a matter of national security, so we have no business seeing it...

    Gee, I'm sure all the MPAA/RIAA lobbyists are just thrilled by this convenient coincidence...special interests still reign supreme, sadly.

    Then again, after Obama changed his mind on Telco immunity in the FISA bill, this shouldn't really come as a shocker.
  2. CalBoy macrumors 604


    May 21, 2007
    Is this "treaty" a genuine treaty or an executive order only?

    If it is going to be ratified as a treaty at some point, the Senate will have to vote on it, where it will become public record.

    Unless this is 1984.
  3. iJohnHenry macrumors P6


    Mar 22, 2008
    On tenterhooks
    It's all paper anyway, and they are struggling to keep all the balls in the air right now.

    As sad situation, for sure.
  4. sysiphus thread starter macrumors 6502a


    May 7, 2006
    I just find it interesting how Bush got -hammered- about this, but now Obama's doing the exact same thing's barely worth printing.
  5. CalBoy macrumors 604


    May 21, 2007
    Of course Bush was also using this secrecy in several other regards, including with the due process rights of US citizens.

    Make no mistake, however, that I want to know more about this and that I am not happy with what's been presented thus far. I wish I knew more, but it seems that the information we have is minimal.
  6. sysiphus thread starter macrumors 6502a


    May 7, 2006
    True, but in principle, it's the exact same thing as Bush did. It doesn't set a good precedent. On top of that, Obama seems to be doing the same thing Bush did (and got hammered for) in regard to holding "enemy combatants" without trial/rights...all he did is dropped the controversial name (see )

    I never expected Obama to do a bit of his "hope and change" that he talked about incessantly...this seems to have been more cheap talk with the same actions as his much-maligned predecessor.
  7. Ugg macrumors 68000


    Apr 7, 2003
    That's the problem with bushco's or any president's actions, they alway set a precedent for his successor.

    I wonder what's being covered up?
  8. sysiphus thread starter macrumors 6502a


    May 7, 2006
    One more point: (please excuse the length, it really does matter/proves the point...)

    One more point on this just to reinforce the absurdity/abuse of power here:

    Oh, no, but we can't let it out in a Freedom of Information Act request...that would compromise our corporate/political security! Sounds an awful lot like what Bush got ragged on for doing--
    A partial list of all the people privy to this "National Security-sensitive" information:

    Chairman , Mr. Eric H. Smith
    International Intellectual Property Alliance

    Mr. Jacques J. Gorlin
    The Gorlin Group

    Sandra M. Aistars, Esq.
    Senior Counsel, Intellectual Property
    Time Warner Inc.

    Kira M. Alvarez, Esq.
    Director, International Government Affairs
    Eli Lilly and Company

    Mark Chandler, Esq.
    Senior Vice President, General Counsel,
    and Secretary
    Cisco Systems, Inc.

    Ms. Erin L. Ennis
    Vice President
    The U.S.-China Business Council

    Francis (Frank) Z. Hellwig, Esq.
    Senior Associate, General Counsel
    Anheuser-Busch Companies, Inc.

    J. Anthony Imler, Ph.D.
    Director, Public Policy, Latin America
    Merck & Co., Inc.
    Ms. Mary A. Irace
    Vice President, Trade and Export Finance
    National Foreign Trade Council, Inc.

    Jeffrey P. Kushan, Esq.
    Sidley, Austin, Brown & Wood LLP
    Representing Biotechnology Industry

    Stevan D. Mitchell, Esq.
    Vice President, Intellectual Property Policy
    Entertainment Software Association

    Douglas T. Nelson, Esq.
    Executive Vice President, General Counsel,
    and Secretary
    CropLife America

    Timothy P. Trainer, Esq.
    Global Intellectual Property
    Strategy Center, P.C.
    Representing the Thomas G. Faria

    Neil I. Turkewitz, Esq.
    Executive Vice President
    Recording Industry Association of America

    Ms. Susan C. Tuttle
    Governement Programs Executive
    IBM Corporation

    Mr. Herbert C. Wamsley
    Executive Director
    Intellectual Property Owners Association

    Ms. Anissa S. Whitten
    Trade Director
    Motion Picture Association of America, Inc.

    Ms. Deborah E. Wiley
    Senior Vice President
    John Wiley and Sons, Inc.
    Association of American Publishers, Inc.

    Shirley Zebroski, Ph.D
    Director, Legislative Affairs
    General Motors Corporation

    Total Members = 19

    Industry Trade Advisory Committee On Chemicals, Pharmaceuticals, Health Science Products and Services
    ITAC 3

    Mr. V. M. (Jim) DeLisi
    Fanwood Chemical, Inc.

    Primary Vice-Chairman
    Robert E. Branand, Esq.
    National Paint & Coatings Association

    Secondary Vice-Chairman
    W. Martin (Marty) Strauss, Ph.D.
    Vice President, Consumer Traits and Food Policy
    Monsanto Company

    Karen L. Bland, Esq.
    Representing The Society of the Plastics Industry, Inc.

    Mr. Michael D. Boyd
    Vice President, Public Affairs International
    Schering-Plough Corporation

    Shawn M. Brown
    Vice President of State Affairs
    Generic Pharmaceutical Association

    Mr. P. Claude Burcky
    Divisional Vice President, Global Government Affairs and Policy
    Abbott Laboratories, Inc.

    Mr. Morris A. Chafetz
    Hemisphere Polymer and Chemical
    Company, Inc.

    Mr. Harrison C. Cook
    Director, International Government Affairs
    Eli Lilly and Company

    Mr. Donald E. Ellison
    Government Relations, LLC

    D. Geoffrey B. Gamble, Esq.
    Director, International Government Affairs
    E.I. DuPont de Nemours & Company

    Mr. Edward L. Gibbs
    North Coast Medical Equipment, Inc.

    Trevor J. Gunn, Ph.D.
    Director, International Relations
    Medtronic, Inc.

    Ms. Tine K. Hansen-Turton
    Chief Executive Officer
    National Nursing Centers Consortium

    Ms. Regina L. Harper
    Regulatory Affairs Manager
    Milliken Chemical

    Ms. Mary A. Irace
    Managing Director, Global Affairs
    American Chemistry Council

    Mr. Ralph F. Ives
    Executive Vice President, Global Strategy and Analysis
    Advanced Medical Technology Association

    Mr. Craig S. Kramer
    Vice President, International
    Government Affairs
    Johnson & Johnson

    Mr. Adrian Krygsman
    Director, Product Registration
    Troy Corporation

    Ms. Nancy R. Levenson
    Director, U.S. Federal Government Relations
    S.C.Johnson & Son, Inc.

    Matthew T. McGrath, Esq.
    Barnes, Richardson and Colburn
    Representing Intermune, Inc.

    Mr. Lloyd N. Moon
    Vice President
    Chemtura Corporation

    Ms. Tracey J. Norberg
    Vice President, Environment and Resource
    Rubber Manufacturers Association

    Ms. Rosemary L. O’Brien
    Vice President, Public Affairs
    CF Industries, Inc.

    Mr. Gerald R. Prout
    Vice President, Government and Public
    FMC Corporation

    Mr. J. Lawrence Robinson
    Color Pigments Manufacturers Association, Inc.

    George L. Rolofson, Ph.D.
    Consultant in Agricultural Science and Environmental, Regulatory, and Trade Policy

    Rolofson Consulting
    Representing Gowan Company

    Ms. Lisa M. Schroeter
    Director, International Policy
    The Dow Chemical Company

    Ms. Marjory E. Searing
    Vice President, Public Affairs - Japan/Asia and Latin America
    Pfizer Inc.

    Mr. Isi A. Siddiqui
    Vice President, Science and Regulatory Affairs
    CropLife America

    Mr. Arthur J. Simonetti
    Director, Trade Legislation and Regulation
    Honeywell International, Inc.

    Mr. Henry P. Stoebenau
    Efficient Global Trade, Inc.
    Representing American Association of Exporters and Importers

    Mr. Albert C. (Cal) Sutphin
    President Braden Sutphin Ink Company

    Mr. Ford B. West
    The Fertilizer Institute

    Mr. Andrew C. Zamoyski
    Zamoyski and Company
    Representing Synthetic Organic Chemical Manufacturers Association

    Total Members = 35

    Industry Trade Advisory Committee On Information and Communications Technologies, Services, and Electronic Commerce
    ITAC 8

    Mr. SteveW. Stewart
    Director, Public Affairs
    IBM Corporation

    Primary Vice-Chairman
    Ms. B. Anne Craib
    Director, International Trade and Government Affairs
    Semiconductor Industry Association

    Secondary Vice-Chairman
    Mr. Robert J. Mulligan
    Senior Vice President International
    AeA: Advancing the Business of Technology

    Mr. Arun K. Bhumitra
    Chief Executive Officer
    Arjay Telecommunications

    Mark F. Bohannon, Esq.
    General Counsel and Senior Vice President, Public Policy Software and Information
    Industry Association

    Mr. Anthony Caldwell
    Global Business Communication Solutions, LLC
    Representing XSelData

    Ms. Melika D. Carroll
    Director, Federal Government Affairs
    Micron Technology, Inc.

    Ms. Susan D. Chapman
    Director, e-Commerce Policy and Asia Pacific Trade Policy
    General Motors Corporation

    Mr. Calman J. Cohen
    Emergency Committee for American Trade

    Tod H. Cohen, Esq.
    Vice President and Deputy General Counsel, Government Relations
    eBay Inc.

    Holly A. Evans, Esq.
    Strategic Counsel, LLC
    Representing Advanced Micro Devices

    Mark E. Foster, Esq.
    Law Offices of Mark E. Foster
    Representing Transaction Network Services,

    Ms. Meredith L. Golemon-Anderson
    Director, International Trade Policy
    Oracle Corporation

    Mr. John P. Goyer
    Vice President, International Trade
    Negotiations and Investment
    U.S. Coalition of Service Industries

    Mr. Christopher G. Hankin
    Director, Federal Affairs
    Sun Microsystems, Inc.

    Ms. Tania W. Hanna
    Director, Government Relations
    Corporate Washington Office
    Harris Corporation

    Mr. Christopher J. Hirth
    Director, Web Commerce Group
    Intuit Inc.

    Mr. David M. Leifer, Esq.
    Senior Counsel
    American Council of Life Insurers

    Mr. Charles B. O’Hara
    Manager, National Government Relations
    The Procter & Gamble Company

    Ms. Wendy E. Owens
    Chief Executive Officer
    AbleMedia LLC

    Mr. Joseph A. Pasetti
    Manager, Government Affairs
    Applied Materials, Inc.

    Mr. Daniel J. Peterson
    Vice President, Industry and Government Affairs
    Cook Group Incorporated

    Mr. Edward M. Rozynski
    Vice President, Global Government Affairs
    Stryker Corporation

    Jacquelynn Ruff, Esq.
    Vice President, International Public Policy and Regulatory Affairs
    Verizon Communications Inc.

    Ms. Loretta L. Schmitzer
    Vice President, Government Affairs
    The Boeing Company

    Mr. Gregory S. Slater
    Director, Trade Policy
    Intel Corporation

    Ms. Sarah G. Smiley
    Associate Vice President
    Advanced Medical Technology Association

    Stephen B. Whitaker, Ph.D.
    Whitaker Strategies, LLC
    Representing BOSE Corporation

    Total Members = 28

    Industry Trade Advisory Committee On Services and Finance Industries
    ITAC 10

    Mr. J. Robert Vastine, Jr.
    U.S. Coalition of Service Industries

    Ms. Elizabeth R. Benson
    Energy Associates

    Mr. Thomas A. Allegretti
    President and Chief Executive Officer
    The American Waterways Operators

    Mr. Fredric S. Berger, P.E.
    Senior Vice President
    The Louis Berger Group, Inc.

    Mr. Stuart J. Brahs
    Stuart J. Brahs Consulting
    American Council of Life Insurers

    Timothy C. Brightbill, Esq.
    Member, American Bar Association
    Wiley Rein LLP

    Stephen J. Canner, Ph.D.
    Vice President, Investment and Financial Services
    United States Council for International

    Ms. Ellen M. Delage
    Director, International Relations
    The American Institute of Architects

    Paul H. DeLaney III
    FedEx Express

    Linda Menghetti Dempsey, Esq.
    Vice President
    Emergency Committee for American Trade

    Peter D. Ehrenhaft, Esq.
    Senior Counsel
    Peter D. Ehrenhaft Consulting
    Representing Harkins Cunningham, LLP

    Mr. Gregory M. Frazier
    Executive Vice President
    Worldwide Government Policy
    Motion Picture Association of America, Inc.

    Madeleine F. Green, Ph.D.
    Vice President and Director,
    Center for International and Institutional Initiatives
    American Council on Education

    Ms. Leslie C. Griffin
    Vice President, International Governmental Affairs
    New York Life Insurance Company

    Mr. Charles P. Heeter Jr.
    Principal, International Government Affairs
    Deloitte and Touche USA LLP

    Ms. Selina E. Jackson
    Vice President, International Public Affairs

    Mr. William A. Jordan
    Senior Director, Government Affairs and Communications
    The McGraw-Hill Companies

    Mr. Leonard N. Karp
    President and Chief Executive Officer
    Philadelphia International Medicine

    Mr. Robert D. Kramer
    Vice President, Public Policy
    Computing Technology Industry Association

    Mr. Gary W. Kushnier
    Vice President, International Policy
    American National Standards Institute

    Ms. Laura J. Lane
    Senior Vice President,
    International Government Affairs
    Citigroup Inc.

    Dr. Marjorie Peace Lenn
    Center for Quality Assurance in International Education

    Mr. Shawn C. McBurney
    Vice President, Governmental Affairs
    American Hotel and Lodging Association

    Mr. DeRohn S.T. Mitchell
    Deputy Director, Government and Business Relations
    Alvarez & Marsal, LLC

    Mr. Kevin C.W. Mulvey
    Assistant Vice President, Corporate and International Affairs
    American International Group, Inc.

    Mr. Patrick J. Natale, P.E.
    Executive Director
    American Society of Civil Engineers

    Mr. Bryan M. Pickel
    Vice President, Federal Government Affairs and External Affairs
    Prudential Financial, Inc.

    Mary S. Podesta, Esq.
    Senior Counsel
    Investment Company Institute

    Jean M. Prewitt, Esq.
    President and Chief Executive Officer
    Independent Film & Television Alliance

    Mr. Ivan J. Sotomayor
    Managing Partner
    Sotomayor & Associates, LLP

    Ms. Sarah F. Thorn
    Director, International Trade
    Federal Government Relations
    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

    Mr. Philip M. Vaughn
    Senior Director, Government Relations
    Fluor Corporation

    Mr. Carlos C. Villarreal, P.E.
    Executive Vice President, Operations
    Wilbur Smith Associates

    Christian (Chris) E. Wolfe, Esq.
    Partner, Business Planning and Taxation
    Haynes and Boone, L.L.P.

    Total Members = 34


    Again, what the heck does anti-counterfeiting have in it that threatens national security, yet puts THIS list of people on the need to know....
  9. Shivetya macrumors 65816

    Jan 16, 2008
    Because too many in the press have a vested interest in seeing him succeed. I know my local paper never front pages anything bad he does or doesn't do. They are so in the tank that they had to plead to get a conservative writer for their opinion pages! Seems they finally figured their rapidly crashing readership rates have to do with the fact all they can do is lambaste our two Senators for not voting for every initiative the President claims we must have or we are all doomed.

    Give it some time, he is already seeing real ratings decline and the debt busting spending will crater any chance of real recovery. Until he comes to realize that he is a steward of the office and not their to remake the country into his own image we will not be for good times.

    I am still awaiting his first big international test... seems Russia is already to the point of mocking him and the British could care less about him anymore. Iran, China, and North Korea, are going to be worth watching to see which one pushes him first and what his reaction will be.

    As far as National Security and secrecy... the big problem I had with lots of Bush's initiatives wasn't his possible abuse of them but the next guy who would.

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