Meet the new poster children for bad home buyers

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Long, but well worth reading the entire thing. I kid you not, your jaw will drop.

    The article then goes on to explain the multiple games these two people have been playing to use one part of the law to defeat the other -- in-between talking about how they put their faith in God.

    I wouldn't argue that some people need help to stave off foreclosure, but obviously Maryland's law has holes big enough to pilot the Jupiter 2 through...and this couple knows how to exploit every loophole.

    Their justification? Banks do stuff like this all the time. To which I say, b******* -- that makes you just as bad as the bankers.

    Seriously, go ahead and read how they've been gaming the system for five years to keep a million dollar house. Un. Be. Lievable.
     
  2. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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  3. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #3
    How did these people get a mortgage in the first place?
     
  4. citizenzen Suspended

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    #4
    Thank you for pointing that there are con artists who take advantage of the system.

    Who knew?

    :rolleyes:
     
  5. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #5
    So we shouldn't point out this outrageous behavior?
     
  6. citizenzen Suspended

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    #6

    I usually see forum threads as a take-off point for a discussion.

    What shall we discuss about this?

    Bad people exist. Sometimes they take advantage of the system.

    I doubt I'll be sticking around long for that one.
     
  7. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #7
    Could not agree with you more. There is a disease - a virus - of people gaming the system, every system, by justifying their behavior via well-so-and-so-did-it-too-and-probably-worse. These people are trash.

    Thanks for taking taking the time to tell us that once again you are taking your toys and going home.
     
  8. citizenzen, Mar 3, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012

    citizenzen Suspended

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    #8

    Yes. People have gamed every system since systems were invented.

    Is there value to pointing out the small minority who do so?

    Is this a discussion about improving the system?

    Or is it just an opportunity to call someone trash?

    Is there anything to be gained from this topic? If so, please enlighten me.

    Edit: I do want to point out that I'm not against discussing this topic. I just interested in where it can go beyond the obvious condemnation of their acts.
     
  9. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #9
    I doubt there are many people who would not do the same if they knew how and found themselves in the same situation.
     
  10. renewed macrumors 68040

    renewed

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    Is there anything to gain from bashing Republicans every other thread? We already know the party is screwed up right now. Is talking about it on a forum going to improve anything? Or is it just an opportunity to call someone trash?

    Food for thought.
     
  11. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #11
    My though exactly. The banks and lenders should take a huge part of this blame for giving out these loans in the first place.

    Honestly it would be nice to see crimanal charges pressed against people like that who abuse the system. It is pretty clear multiple bankruptcys in a relatively short time span is gaming the system and as such they should be thrown in jail. It people like that who causes the laws to get striker and worse for all of us as they try to stop people from abusing the system.
     
  12. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #12
    It might have been even more interesting had the original post included this portion of the article...

     
  13. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #13
    A credit check should of shown the prior bankruptcy and fraud charges.
     
  14. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #14
    It seems apparent that no checking was done prior to securing these mortgages. The whole situation is undoubtedly the various lenders' faults. They clearly never explained to the poor uninformed buyers that mortgages, typically, need to be repaid.

    Oh, those poor unsuspecting buyers! How could they have been expected to know?
     
  15. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #15
    These people are idiots for taking advantage of the system, but at the same time the bank should take an equal amount of blame since they clearly didn't do any sort of checking before giving out these mortgages. I'm not sure what you can do now to keep people like this from taking advantage of all these loopholes, but making sure the banks are properly regulated to keep things like this from happening again would be a good start.
     
  16. citizenzen Suspended

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    #16

    The funny thing is that like the banksters who gambled with reckless derivatives, these people have operated under the letter of the law.

    Tighter regulation, anyone?
     
  17. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #17
    This of course changes the whole slant of the article. :eek:
     
  18. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #18
    Well, I did encourage people -- twice -- to read more than just what I posted.

    By the same token, one could say we shouldn't post when a politician makes a particularly dumb remark, or some atrocious law is passed. Happens all the time; nothing new there.

    Pretty soon this would be the emptiest board at MR.

    Others have found jumping-off points. To me, this is the best one so far:

    Sure, but if you owned several homes and were facing foreclosure on all of them, just out of a sense of responsibility, wouldn't you at least try to keep one of the smaller homes and let the banks take the others?
     
  19. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #19

    Yes. My jaw did drop. No mention of the loan agent and the lending officer who must have approved the loan with almost no money down. How far up the management chain did people know that unsafe loans where being made? Did they all get bonuses for generating many loans? Have they given their bonuses back? If the banks fired everyone who benefited from the bubble, they wouldn't have any management left.

    Banks are used to the law only working in their favor. As far as I can tell, the homeowners are following the law. If, as they say, "the law is ass (donkey, that is, idiot)"**, then, fix it.

    Are the homeowners as bad as the bankers, as you say? I have to consider a contrarian opinion: the relative harm in people occupying for five years the house they legally own, versus the harm the banks caused by illegally, fraudulently writing hundreds of billions of dollars worth of loans on buildings they knew were over-valued? It has also been apparent in my state that the banks (that is, their loan agents) frequently lied (yes, lied) to homeowners about what the monthly payments would actually be. Without knowing what actual conversations took place between the parties, how would we know if, for example, the agent promised a payment of $6000/mo., while the actual payment was $12,000/mo.? Perhaps when the homeowners got the statement, they headed right down to the agent's office, and, were told that they should have "read the fine print". We'll probably never know exactly what happened, but, if they found a good lawyer who said to the bank, "No, you should have read the fine print!", well, that's what happens when you start to believe that life is a game.

    I'm a believer in the moral approach rather than the legal approach to life. In this case, the best moral outcome might be that these folks will have taught the bank a lesson.


    **(from Wikipedia): The phrase "the law is an ass" originates in Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist, when the character Mr. Bumble is informed that "the law supposes that your wife acts under your direction". Mr. Bumble replies "If the law supposes that ... the law is a [sic] ass—a idiot. If that's the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experience—by experience."
     
  20. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #20
    All I see are people who know how to play the system, or have lawyers who know how to play the system.
     
  21. citizenzen Suspended

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    #21

    Public figures and policies are another issue altogether. We have more direct influence on their success: getting elected to office, or getting an audience. In the case of public policy, our discussions can bring light to complex issues that will be voted on or adjudicated in the future.

    In this case, my question really is whether there's anything to discuss beyond simple outrage and spleen venting. Now you know I enjoy a good sadistic outburst as well the other guy, but I just saw a pattern emerging that would lead to a string of posts calling them scumbags and little else. I was asking whether there was something more people could offer.
     
  22. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #22
    I don't think one example of a couple gaming the foreclosure system should be a justification to streamline those laws in favor of the banks--if that's where this discussion is headed. It's amazing they have been able to stay there for 5 years -- but who put them there? The lenders themselves. Ooops.
     
  23. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #23
    This couple bought the house to flip it; they are "business owners" who fell on hard times and then used the courts and the bankruptcy laws to shield their assets from creditors? Yes, this is a house and people who should have been denied a loan in the first place, but Donald Trump has done this exact same trick. Mitt Romney made millions doing basically the same thing. It's common for businesses to leverage, make a bunch during good times, and then file for protection as soon as things go south.

    I wonder if this couple is the only example of this problem in MD, or if they were "selected" for another reason. Yes, I'm a bit of a cynic.

    (edit) On a side note, does anyone know how much debt has been eliminated through bankruptcy overall? I'm curious to see what the breakdown was of how much was corporate or business debt and how much was personal debt.
     
  24. citizenzen Suspended

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    #24

    Streamline the laws that the banks circumvented time and time again ...?

    [source]

    Foreclosure abuse rampant across U.S., experts say

    A report this week showing rampant foreclosure abuse in San Francisco reflects similar levels of lender fraud and faulty documentation across the United States, say experts and officials who have done studies in other parts of the country.


    We certainly can't have people taking advantage of those poor banks. ;)
     

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