General Messages in iCloud question

Discussion in 'iOS 11' started by Jstuts5797, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. Jstuts5797 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    #1
    This would be for those of you who are on the latest beta. The new messages for iCloud feature... how is this any different than before? I've never lost old messages when moving to a new device because it's all backed up in my iCloud anyway. How is this any different? Also does the space it uses with this new feature on your paid for iCloud storag space(or part of the 5GB free)? If so it almost sounds like this "feature" is nothing more than to get you to use more iCloud space so you have to purchase more. What am I missing here?
     
  2. Mlrollin91 macrumors G5

    Mlrollin91

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    #2
    You didn't lose messages because you restored from a backup. This allows you to set up your phone as new, without restoring junk files or corruption and allows you to restore messages. Otherwise you would lose your messages restoring as new. I've only ever had problems restoring from backup, never after restoring as new. Now that health and messages are in the cloud, I will never restore from a backup.

    This also allows you to delete messages on one device and it will be removed from all other devices. I have 5 devices. Deleting from 5 devices is an absolute pain.
     
  3. rctneil macrumors regular

    rctneil

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    #3
    Basically, the new Messages in iCloud feature is the same for Messages as Apple did with Photos when introducing iCloud Photo Library.

    Before iCloud Photo Library, any photos you took were stored on your device and only put into iCloud as part of the backup of your iPhone or iPad. Thus when restoring to a new iPhone or iPad you could see your photos again. The problem with this is that if you wanted a photo from your iPhone on your iPad, you would have to transfer it over somehow and then it would be included int he backup of that second device as well thereby using even more of your iCloud storage space.

    Enabling iCloud Photo Library takes all your photos out of your backups and stores them in iCloud separately to your iPhone and iPad device backups. Each device then just looks at the photos in iCloud and can see them all. Your individual devices then pull down high res copies of each of them only when required. This allows your phone to optimise its onboard storage.

    The same thing is now happening with Messages. All your Messages will be stored separately in iCloud and not in any of your device backups. This allows no duplicates and saves you and Apple themselves storage space.

    It seems to make sense to me.

    In short, the difference is where in iCloud the media is stored:- As part of each device backup or separately enabling smoother and more efficient sync between devices.
     
  4. Jstuts5797, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018

    Jstuts5797 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 15, 2013
    #4
    Your explanation above makes complete sense to me. I hope when Apple releases it publicly they can convey this correctly as well. I don't remember it being that clear from the WWDC. Kinda a bummer that it takes more of your iCloud space though. I'm doing better with device storage than I am with iCloud storage, and I have the 200GB plan.
     
  5. rctneil macrumors regular

    rctneil

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    #5
    It doesn't take up more space though, as all the messages across devices are consolidated and deduplicated it actually uses less space overall. The space the messages were taking up in the device backups will be reclaimed and the messages are stored separately from the backups.
     
  6. Jstuts5797 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 15, 2013
    #6
    Less space on your device though right? NOT less space in iCloud?

    Edit to add: my iPad Pro will remain on iOS 10. This is why it will actually take more iCloud space for me correct? I guess it might save SOME space since they are duplicated on my Apple Watch though? Hmmm
     
  7. rctneil macrumors regular

    rctneil

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    Jul 29, 2013
    #7
    So, Basically it will be less space on iCloud as you will not be storing each message multiple times, ie: a message in each backup. You just have one copy of each message. Therefore less space used in iCloud.

    On devices it will also be less space used as it will only sync the most recent messages and everything else is left on iCloud. I think this is user configurable.

    In your situation, your iOS 10 iPad will continue to store messages it receives in its device backup on iCloud whereas your other devices with Message in iCloud enabled will store them outside the backups, this will use up more of your iCloud space as you have messages both in Messages in iCloud AND device backups.

    Yes, it really is confusing when explaining it but it really does make sense. I do agree that Apple don't convey what certain services offer very well.
     
  8. LarryJoe33 macrumors 65832

    LarryJoe33

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    Jul 17, 2017
    Location:
    Boston
    #8
    Synchronization. Think Calendar, Contacts, Bookmarks, Notes....when you choose to check these off in iCloud settings they live in iCloud and are synchronized across all your devices (when you check the box on the devices).

    Yes, this will increase your storage and may result in you needing more space. The trade off is you likely won't need a 256GB phone anymore. I think pretty much anyone can get by with a 64GB iPhone X when leveraging all iCloud functionality.

    All this said, I couldn't give a crap about the math or economics of saving $150 on the phone and having to increase my iCloud plan. I just find the functionality VERY useful.
     
  9. kiranmk2 macrumors 6502a

    kiranmk2

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    Oct 4, 2008
    #9
    Just bumping this thread to ask about how Messages in the Cloud sets itself up. At the moment I have my oldest and most-up-to-date thread on my iPhone. As I don't use Messages on iPad or Mac as much I have a lot of old 2-factor codes and offers in Messages on these devices. When you first enable Messages in the cloud, how does it determine which messages are retained if they are different on different devices? Does it just put everything up there (meaning I would have to go through an redelete pointless messages) or do you nominate one device to use as the 'source' when replicates on the other devices?
     
  10. LarryJoe33 macrumors 65832

    LarryJoe33

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    #10
    I 'believe' that when you turn it on it is forward looking. For example, if you deleted a thread from your iPad but it is still on your phone, it will not reappear on the ipad after enabling messages in the iCloud. Additionally, if you have the same message on both devices and you enable icloud and then delete from one device it will delete from both.

    See what I am saying? The only sync are the actions you perform after turning it on.
     
  11. atlchamp macrumors 68000

    atlchamp

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    Location:
    ATL
    #11
    the fact that it doesnt take all messages and sync them is garbage. The whole idea of restoring as new and just syncing messages is out the window
     
  12. kiranmk2 macrumors 6502a

    kiranmk2

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    Oct 4, 2008
    #12
    That sounds terrible. I had half an idea to just delete all the threads on my Mac and iPad before enabling it so my iPhone messages (master set) sync to all the devices.
     
  13. jalexandratos macrumors newbie

    jalexandratos

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2018
    #13
    Hmm. This makes no sense. I know that iMessages in the Cloud did sync all my messages. Heck, I even used it to consolidate some old messages from a different device.

    Then again, I’ve been using this feature for awhile. Maybe that’s now how it works now?

    Also did a clean install (ie no restore from backup) of my iPhone a few weeks ago. One, you’d be surprised at the number of issues that resolved. Also used the iMessages/Cloud to restore/sync all my messages.

    The only other things is that I recall it took some time to finally sync everything across the board (iPhone, iPad, MacBook). A day or two. Maybe give it some more time?
     
  14. BugeyeSTI macrumors 68030

    BugeyeSTI

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    Arizona
    #14
    I’m not sure if I like the idea of everything being deleted on all devices. I’ve accidentally deleted a thread on one device and luckily, it was still on all the others. I do like the idea of setting up a device as new and having all the messages sync to the device though. I’ll need to way the pro’s and con’s before I activate it
     
  15. LarryJoe33 macrumors 65832

    LarryJoe33

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    Jul 17, 2017
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    Boston
    #15
    We are talking about what it does when we actually turn it on correct? And more importantly, what is actually put in the cloud? Let's say for example, you had 5 unique texts on your ipad and not on your phone. On your phone you have 10 unique messages not on the ipad. Not important how they became like this, but it is possible, delete from one and not the other etc.

    So given the scenario above, you enable messages in icloud. I am fairly positive you will not have 15 messages on each device, but from this point forward, any new messages will be in sync via iCloud.

    I have been running beta's since last June, so I have used messages in iCloud as much as I could before and after they turned it on/off/on.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 27, 2018 ---
    Not for everyone, but this is the one thing I LOVE about it. Permanently deleting that discover able trail;)
     

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14 February 20, 2018