Mexico tortures migrants – and citizens

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by 1458279, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #26
    To some extent, I think this is true, but it's important to note that the cartels would simply shift to some other product. They're already "diversifying" by taking over the migration routes, running extortion and kidnapping rings, as well as illegal mining, piracy, and human trafficking.

    For instance, La Familia Michoacana sold nearly 1.1 million tons of stolen iron ore to China for $42 million, and other cartels have stolen oil trucks or tapped oil pipelines.

    Cartels have also taken control of legal businesses, for instance the Knights-Templar took over the avocado and lime business in Michoaćan for a time.
     
  2. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #27

    Wow. And in America, it’s the corporations that are said to hold too much sway.

    But of course, when you operate within Mexico with impunity, and you take a look at how a group like ISIS self-funds by taking over areas and businesses, moving into products and services outside the norm is trivially feasible.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #28
    MY FRIEND, everything you just described makes it a failed state.
     
  4. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #29
    ATF got caught doing just the opposite and giving the guns to their oppressors.
     
  5. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #30
    The very fact that Mexico is at or near a failed state is the exact reason we need to put up the wall. Mexico needs to be forced into fixing itself. We give Mexico a reason to continue what they do.

    From one stand point, the people of Mexico are in the same boat as we are. They are fed up with what their government is doing to their nation and their people. They can't stand up as much as we can because they let things go too far, but we're both on the same path. They need to stand up and change things, but they have a harder time standing up.

    This is why we need to fix our nation and stop supporting nations that need to fail in order to realize they are on the wrong path.

    Look at the poverty in Mexico, the people in poverty aren't going get much worse (they really can't), so it's just the corrupt people that are gaining from us trying to help.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #31
    it's ok as long as a democrat does it.
     
  7. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #32
    More like the ATF was trying to bust a cartel gun smuggling ring, gave them a bunch of marked weapons, then lost them.

    Remember. Never assume malice when stupidity remains a possibility.
     
  8. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #33
    I'm sure Agent Terrys family is okay with that explanation.
     
  9. Renzatic Suspended

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    #34
    Tragedy due to ineptitude isn't any more easily endured than tragedy due to malice. Let's not make this into something it wasn't.
     
  10. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #35
    You believe you what you want to believe. I'll believe what I want. "We investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong." Not a single person was punished/fired for that fiasco.
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #36
    Quite a few people were "forced to retire" over it. Though since it wasn't directly criminal, nothing more came of it.

    Though if you do believe the Obama administration were handing weapons over the cartel, explain to me what they'd expect to get out of it?
     
  12. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #37
    I guess that's the same rule we can use for Libya. Hillary says "well, we HAD a plan"... and little else is said about it.

    But remember, it's not a double standard with they do it.
     
  13. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #38
    Now there's a sword that cuts both ways.
     
  14. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #39
    Same BS democrats are always after more control and banning guns by saying "see the violence in Mexico is America's fault."
     
  15. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #40
    And do you have any proof of that, or is it just some personally held belief?
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #43
    No, I don't think so. Mexico has rampant corruption, but there's also large parts of the country that work quite well. There's commerce and infrastructure, there's a working health care system, and for many people live in Mexico, cartel-led violence remains at arm's length.

    Keep in mind that the ATF got caught in 2011 and that program involved less than 2,000 firearms. This sounds like a lot until you consider that Mexico has at least 18 million firearms in the country.

    In Mexico, the nation's single legal gun store—run by the Directorate of Arms and Munitions Sales—has 70 to 100 customers per day.

    Please explain how forcing Mexico to spend billions on a wall across its northern border will help the country fix itself without resorting to empty cliches about standing up and "paths."

    Tell me the economic scenario in which such an expensive infrastructure project helps Mexico. Arguably, a wall is the best way to destroy value since it's an expensive hunk of architecture—don't get me started on the nearly-magical infrastructure needed to secure the Rio Grande Valley—that's largely in areas that no one uses.

    Will this stop the cartels? Nope.
    Will this blunt the drug trade? Nope, it will just make it more lucrative.
    Will this help Mexico's economy? Nope. Arguably, it will hurt trade.
    Will the immigrants from Central America stop coming? Maybe to the United States, but that just shifts the problem around and means that Central American women and children are either trapped in Mexico's corruption or endure violence at home.
     
  17. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #44
    [QUOTE="hulugu, post: 22763788, member: 20315"


    Keep in mind that the ATF got caught in 2011 and that program involved less than 2,000 firearms. This sounds like a lot until you consider that Mexico has at least 18 million firearms in the country.

    In Mexico, the nation's single legal gun store—run by the Directorate of Arms and Munitions Sales—has 70 to 100 customers per day.


    [/QUOTE]

    Only took one each to kill two Border Patrol Agents/
     
  18. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #45
    The people of Mexico should have stood up to this a long time ago. By leaning on the US for jobs and economic support, they are in a state of welfare dependency. It's like giving a lazy person welfare, it keeps them on welfare. If they feared for their lives, they would stand up and do something.

    Much like the US did years ago. It happened on Bloody Valentine's Day in Chicago years ago when the gangs got out of hand.

    If the gangs killed a few million people, some of the others would finally stand up and do something.

    It takes a 9/11 attack for people to wake up and see what's going on. You can't convince people that 9/11 could happen until it does, yet the planning went on for years.

    Much like drunk drivers. If 10 million Americans died in one day because of drunk drivers, people would be out in the streets and the government would do a crack down. When it's 1 person per hour, we're not going to change the rules.

    We didn't change the rules before 9/11, we changed them after.

    Most people won't exercise and eat right until after their 1st heart attack.

    Mexico needs a heart attack so that they'll wake up.

    Much like what's going on with the two primary parties right now. Hillary is having a tough time getting past a socialist that's our raising her by big margins right now.
    The GOP is in panic mode, they lost the #1 and #2 party leaders and they still didn't wake up. Now they are about to lose their entire party.

    It's human nature to wait till after the heart attack before you take health issue seriously. Sometimes you don't even get that as a warning.

    Anything short of that is just talk and will change nothing.
     
  19. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

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    #46
    Obama and Hillary gave cartels guns. Now you know, but you'll still vote for Hillary, so what does that say about you?
     
  20. Meister Suspended

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    #47
    How dare you!

    There are lots of reasons to support the Hildabeast:
    • Arming cartels and terrorists is very presidential
    • Starting wars is also very presidential - just look at the great George Bush the second
    • Taking peoples privacy and rights away (patriot act) is also very presidential - it protects them from the terrorists that you have just armed before
     
  21. 617aircav Suspended

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    #48
    The pro open border media like the London guardian will never report on this. Last week they had an article blaming immigration services for separating families. In one case a US navy vet was deported for drug offenses and they glossed over his offense and concentrated on how America could deport a military veteran.
     
  22. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #49
    Deporting drug dealers is very racist!
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #50
    That's peanuts compared to drugs.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 5, 2016 ---
    America does make exercise hard with the lack of pavements.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 5, 2016 ---
    Of what? Seven gang bangers? More will die on this fourth of July weekend in Chicago than that...

    What killed the gangs was the ending of prohibition.
     

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