Michael Cohen pleads guilty to misleading Congress about Russia investigation

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ericgtr12, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #1
    Donald Trump was named by name this time, this also likely contradicts Trump's written statements to Mueller.

     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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  3. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #3
    Trump is already playing his game - now that Cohen has plead guilty, Trump said he's lying. But - and here's the kicker - he's saying that even if he had done business with Russia in 2016 during the campaign, he wouldn't be doing anything wrong.

    He lies until he's backed into a corner, then says "well, even if I did there's nothing wrong with it".

    We've seen this game before. It's hard to believe this is a 72 year old man we are discussing.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/29/politics/donald-trump-michael-cohen-response/index.html
     
  4. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #4
    Well..... When a liar pleads guilt to lying are they lying then to get a sweet deal?
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #5
    Cohen playing guilty to lying means Cohen is not credible and you can't basically use him against trump because tada,,,,,, he is a proven liar.

    4-D chess.
     
  6. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #6
    Who knows? I'm not a Cohen fan. Was he lying then or lying now? Prosecutors are much better at this than I am, I tend to think Mueller and the course this investigation takes are better suited to determine that. But generally speaking, he got caught lying, was in trouble, and is likely telling the truth to get out of trouble, not lying. But that's just a hunch.

    I guess in Trump's world, this makes him look better. It's amazing all of these weak, lying people who surrounded him and he's the only man of character and honesty. Very sad to see this vast criminal conspiracy circling him.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 29, 2018 ---
    Well, that settles that then. Just a waste of everyone's time. Reimburse Cohen for his troubles, stop the investigation and let's move on.

    Per usual, it's Trump's own words that give me pause though, not anyone else. "I didn't do that... but even if I did it wouldn't be wrong". That's his go-to when it is revealed he just may, possibly, have been lying.
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #7
    oh you can keep the investigation, but Cohen being a convicted liar means you can't use him against trump.......

    "I didn't do that... but even if I did it wouldn't be wrong".

    sounds like he is going to pull a Clinton/Reagan and say he did not know since everyone else handles business for him.
     
  8. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #8
    Where do you guys come up with this stuff? "He lied once, so he may be lying now so anything he says going forward can't be trusted" is not how these things work. I'm going to take a wild swing and take a guess that anything he tells prosecutors will try to be verified, as much evidence and corroboration as possible gathered, etc...

    Let me be clear - in practical terms, outside of a court of law, I completely agree with you. In an investigation, this is simply not how it works.
     
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #9
    I love "Suits"............................... and CSI................................:p
    w/o hard evidence it's his word (worth nothing now) VS trumps.
     
  10. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #10
    This is exactly how it works. Non credible witnesses and or information as viewed with extreme prejudice... Does Cohen have factual data / info to show he is telling the truth this time? If he does then he has more credibility. If he does not then he is already a proven and admitted liar....
     
  11. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #11
    Cohen pretty much made himself useless to their investigation. Once a witness admits to lying to authorities their credibility is gone, charge him and toss him to the side. It's hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt if the testimony ones using is from a known liar. You could put a monkey in the defense attorneys chair and they'd win that argument.
     
  12. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #12
    They're all lying, Trump has surrounded himself with most unscrupulous kind of people. They've all been shown to lie, cheat and steal but I don't see how this exonerates Donald Trump, he's their kingpin and the reason every one of them are where they are now, that much has been established.

    Mueller's job is to get to the bottom of it all and it sounds like he's been getting it done. We now know what they lied about, when, where, to whom, etc. All I know is Trump better hope Cohen doesn't have any more tapes. Trump is now on record.
     
  13. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #13
    No, it does not.
     
  14. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #14
    no "reasonable" prosecutor is going to pursue charges based on testimony from a convicted and proven liar :D
     
  15. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #15
    I think you’re missing Cohen’s real value to the investigation. They’re not going to count on him to provide sworn testimony. They’re going to use him to tell them where the financial bodies are buried. They will then go after the relevant financial records, etc. and use them to nail Trump. Cohen was clearly involved in many very shady Trump deals and his overall credibility is irrelevant if he leads them to credible evidence.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #16
    "your honor, those are all deals Cohen made behind my back,,,,,,,,, the liar".......................
     
  17. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #17
    That is all going to depend on what evidence they have. I know people want to discredit Mueller and this whole investigation as much as possible, but the guy knows what he's doing. These threads will be interesting to read in hindsight. We will see what Cohen offers, if anything, and the facts/evidence surrounding it. His credibility is shot, who would deny that? That's not what the debate is, the debate is will they simply cast him aside - or if he's "useless" - and that definitely is not how it works. If everyone who lied and pleaded guilty could not also be used as a witness or cooperate with authorities, we would see a lot less convictions of real criminals.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 29, 2018 ---
    That will only work if its he-said, he-said.
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #18
    I agree they NOW need hard evidence.
    the FBI would need a smoking gun on Cohen to get him to turn over anything .
     
  19. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #19
    Really.... Please do tell your experience in this because it's exactly how it works!

    As stated, he would need some type of proof / evidence to backup that he is now telling the truth. Without any, he is a documented and admitted liar....

    Cohen has almost zero testimonial value....

    I do not agree with this poster much but he is close to being spot on..

     
  20. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    Interesting that the conversation went to the idea that Cohen's testimony can't be used in court, rather than the fact that the president's lawyer got caught lying to the FBI about the Trump organization's dealings with Russia.

    The president's lawyer got caught lying to the FBI about his organization's dealings with Russia!

    The fact that Cohen is admitting that he lied means he got caught, which means that the FBI has evidence that he was lying. Moreover, Cohen's a great witness for the FBI because he can prove a larger conspiracy, and even impugn the testimony of other defense witnesses.
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #21
    OMG, trump was going to build a tower in Russia..............
     
  22. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #22
    Disagree.. People take plea deals all the time to mitigate the expense of defense, health reason ect.... Or they flat out lie and make things up to save themselves...

    Disagree... It means he took a plea deal. Without seeing all the documents and supposed evidence it means nothing more than what it is. A plea deal to save his skin... Could be more lies on his part, could be a factual plea...

    Disagree again.. Cohen has zero testimonial credibility... None, nada, zilch....
     
  23. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #23
    It doesn't exonerate Trump, but when prosecutors construct their case and compile a witness list the credibility of said witnesses is crucial. Cohen might be out unless their is someone to corroborate his testimony that is credible (ie....a third party privy to the details of whatever dealings occurred). If there isn't, Cohen is a bad witness. The same issue occurs when the Feds go after organized crime figures, everyone is full of ****, some flat out don't talk, they need to find the one person who's willing to talk and not lie to them. Essentially Cohen shot himself in the foot with whatever deal he was going to strike with the prosecutors. Cohen is a little fish in a pool with the big fish, he just made it harder to build a case against the big fish and prosecutors tend to get REALLY irritated when that happens.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 29, 2018 ---
    Right, but he's still going to have to testify if it comes to that.
     
  24. zin macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Cohen should have just said he gave the "least untruthful" answer. Worked for Clapper.
     
  25. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #25
    I think it's the exact opposite, Cohen was closely tied to Trump's business dealings for more than a decade, he's a treasure trove of information. Yes, he has a credibility problem but then they ALL do in this case. The bigger question here is how much can Cohen prove and it would be naive to believe there isn't documentation, witnesses, etc. to corroborate his testimony.

    At the moment, Mueller is holding all the cards and Trump's best defense thus far has been posting angry tweets from the toilet.
     

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98 November 29, 2018