Michael Moore's new movie

barkomatic

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"Capitalism: A Love Story" is Michael Moore's latest film which premiered last night in New York and will be widely released in October. In it, he criticizes our current economic system and cites examples within the context of the latest recession--and before--where it has failed to create or maintain an acceptable standard of living we all expect from it.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/22/news/economy/michael_moore_capitalism_love.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009092308

The recession itself and the current health care debate has more people questioning our economic system and policies now more than ever. It seems like we're one more major economic setback away from moving toward more socialist tendencies.

Have we evolved past the concept that pursuing individual wealth is the greatest good one can do for our society? Is that even a truly realistic goal anymore for most of us? It seems people struggle valiently just to stay in what's considered the "middle class". Most families have both parents working all the while accumulating considerable debt that will take most of their lives to pay off. That's just to have a roof over their heads and to pay for college tuition.
 

barkomatic

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Well you buy a ticket and the proceeds go to help the impoverished get their tickets.
The move is being released by a private company so no. Also, Michael Moore will be paid a handsome amount himself. Does this mean he's a hypocrite? How could one get funding for and widely release a film in this country without utilizing the current distribution system?

Besides, I don't think he's suggesting we abandon all profitable business. You would still need to buy a movie ticket in his "ideal society" just as you do in France or Canada.
 

djellison

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So is he offering to let people see the movie for free or does one have to buy a ticket?
When profitability trumps morality, there is a problem.

As with all mind-sets, it is the fundamentalists that are the problem. Capitalist fundamentalism is damaging. It's what created the global economic disaster, caused millions to lose their jobs and thousands to lose their homes.

If Moore, however loose his relationship with fact is, can make that one point clear, then he's doing a good thing.
 

Zombie Acorn

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And now that we're so "great" it seems all we've been doing for almost a decade is free falling. The rest of the world is catching up.
China is catching up, we've been outsourcing all of our **** to them and all the other countries that are catching up for a while now.

European countries still have very low GDP until you add them altogether.
 

NT1440

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China is catching up, we've been outsourcing all of our **** to them and all the other countries that are catching up for a while now.

European countries still have very low GDP until you add them altogether.
Ah, as usual, its money that anyone cares about :rolleyes:

This country as a society is becoming a massive joke.
 

NT1440

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GDP is more than a measure of money making. Its positively correlated with the standard of living and gives more insight into the country.
I tend to rank society on things like:

Education
Overall health
Health Systems
How they treat those who are worse off


All of which, and more, america is losing its footing and falling flat on its face in front of the rest of the world.
 

Zombie Acorn

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I tend to rank society on things like:

Education
Overall health
Health Systems
How they treat those who are worse off


All of which, and more, america is losing its footing and falling flat on its face in front of the rest of the world.


Our health system has problems (so does every other health system in the world). We are a bunch of fatties due to cultural changes, but we still have some of the best medical facilities and pharm companies in the world.
 

.Andy

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Dude, it's Michael Moore...was that a serious question?
Yes. I've never seen him proposing anything other than capitalism but don't follow him so I might be wrong. And from what I've read about this movie it appears to be pointing out the problems with the excesses and limitations of capitalism and where it is "evil". Which doesn't necessarily make it anti-capitalism does it? Can't there be an intermediate?

edit: I'll wait until I see it before jumping up and down.
 

Gelfin

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Without capitalism America would have never been great.
Is the flavor of capitalism we have now sufficiently valuable to you that you would sacrifice that greatness in order to keep it?

Right now the profit motive of American capitalists is doing a lot more to make China great at our expense than it is us, based in large part on the fact that China's hybrid economy can be precision tuned to drain away our money by exploiting our ideological economic inflexibility.

At the same time, while fiscal conservatives decry the printing of money to solve problems, pointing correctly to the inflation in its wake, they do not manage to extend that objection to the virtual printing of money enabled by the contrivances of Wall Street convention, by which money is essentially spoken into existence, unrelated to any measurably productive activity. The unhappy truth is that the inflation fiscal conservatives fear is already here with us. You don't notice it because it is potential instead of kinetic, like the tension in a stretched spring, hidden away in the gap between massive hoarders of wealth at the top of the economy and the "conventional" economy at the bottom that is not just stagnating but being actively cannibalized to further pad the top.

If your priority is American greatness, you need to start paying attention, because business as usual isn't going to cut it anymore. The people whose self-interested behavior you're relying on to promote that greatness these days openly regard the entire concept of national loyalty as useless sentimentalism. They are not on your side.

I'm on record as not being a huge fan of Moore. To me he's a tease. He sets up a premise, begins to build a case for it, then when he should be closing in for the kill, falls back on cheap and unfocused emotional manipulation. This weakness allows political opponents to dismiss him far too easily, and undermines all his best intentions.

Some of his marginalization has not been his fault. Of the people whose response to Moore is a snark and an eyeroll, I would be interested to know how many have ever actually watched one of his films. Of the handful who have, how many weren't sitting with a notepad uncritically mining for ammunition? How many are simply mimicking what some right-wing talking head has demonstrated to them as the "correct" reaction to mention of Moore?

He's not a slam dunk artist, but he does his homework, and the end result deserves to be evaluated critically and discussed rationally. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise has something to fear from that happening, and you'd do well to figure out what.

I am very encouraged to see Capitalism, even if I doubt I will agree with its conclusions, and mostly on the back of this review, from a right-inclined reviewer who, but for one reservation, thinks it is incredibly important for his fellow Republicans to see the film, and not just as a target for ridicule.

Having had a couple of conversations with this reviewer in the past, I am pleased to see he is part of what I am just starting to see might be a genuine movement by genuine conservatives to break the extreme lockstep that's characterized the American right for years, based in part on a recognition that they've been had, that all the things conservatives believed in have been turned against them and used to exploit them. Slowly they're looking around, seeing where it's brought them and saying, "wait a minute, I didn't sign on for this."

You might not see the movie, but give the review a sincere chance at least. I think it will be worth your time, and there's a chance it might change your mind.
 

Zombie Acorn

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Ive seen most if not all of Michael Moore's films, the most recent one I watched was sicko. Which I find kind of odd that he would do a statement on health care (even if it was mostly about health coverage being denied) when he himself is a fat slob perpetuating our health problems in the US.

I have no problem with China taking advantage of the US, they are probably one of my favorite countries right now. Capitalism will make them great also.

As for wallstreet creating money out of thin air, I think there is definitely truth to that, but when they fall flat on their asses the government is there to back them up, so we aren't really doing ourselves any favors here. One of our main problems is we have too few companies with too much power. If a company is "too big to fail" it shouldn't be allowed to operate in the first place without heavy regulations.
 

NT1440

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Ive seen most if not all of Michael Moore's films, the most recent one I watched was sicko. Which I find kind of odd that he would do a statement on health care (even if it was mostly about health coverage being denied) when he himself is a fat slob perpetuating our health problems in the US.
You need to be the perfect example of health to see problems in the industry? :confused::confused::confused: