Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad

[AidenShaw]

I think Microsoft should be spending money on making their products higher quality.

Windows 7, coming this summer (NH) to every Best Buy, Fry's, Amazon, Newegg and other store in the world.

Nothing wrong with the optical output of my mini. It puts out 5.1 just as well as any other HTPC.

Unfortunately for you, Blu-ray can put out 8 channel 96 KHz 24-bit uncompressed audio.

Compressed 5.1 just isn't there.

First off, this "trialware" thing. I've bought 4 Dell machines in my day, and they shipped with nothing installed other than Windows and Dell's own hardware drivers.

Latitudes, Precisions, Optiplexes and other business models are clean. Just the Microsoft bits and a few Dell system tools for hardware support.

The Best Buy consumer systems are loaded with junk.

All the PC's we've ever had got so slow after 2-3 years and we were forced to buy a new one.

LOL, you were really taken by your computer salesman.

The dock, with the way the icons for your favorite apps stay in a consistent location, is nowhere near as fun as the Windows Task Bar, where apps are located in the order in which they were launched. IMO.

Wait until you get some quality time with the Windows 7 taskbar. Wow, what a convenient tool.

Apple should acquire Sun on the cheap - and make a break for the enterprise. I'm sure it wouldn't take too much work to get OS X to run on Sparc servers...

Sparc is dead - but Sun does make some nice x64 Intel and AMD servers. Like the Sun Fire X4450 Server, 24-core 128 GiB in a 2U server.

 

[cisco1138]

I'm being serious. Try out an X-FI. Most people don't believe it but when they step into my home-theater room, their jaw drops at the audio quality. It's not because of the Z-5500 speaker system, it's because of the X-FI and Crystallizer.

200" Mitsubishi display, and your sound is reproduced by Logitech?
your sound is way underpowered there.
I suggest you let the AC3 - DTS simply feed-thru your computer and let a real amplifier do the decoding, feed that sound into something like Velodyne Sub and Energy drivers, and then you can brag about your $10,000 investment

 

[Anuba]

Latitudes, Precisions, Optiplexes and other business models are clean. Just the Microsoft bits and a few Dell system tools for hardware support.

Right, but... my two first machines were Inspiron and Dimension (laptop, minitower). After that I had another Inspiron before I moved to an XPS and a Precision. I also set up a Dimension my ex-girlfriend bought. The only one that didn't ship with only Windows installed was the second Inspiron, it had Norton installed but that's because I ordered it that way. So I'm still guessing there's a difference between US/EU. Just looking at the Dell US site, the configuration pages are littered with lots of crap we don't get over here.

The Best Buy consumer systems are loaded with junk.

Yikes!

 

[polaris20]

All the PC's we've ever had got so slow after 2-3 years and we were forced to buy a new one. I've had my Mac for two years now and it's still running as fast as the day I got it.

So.....reformat the drive. It'll be like new. I've got a Dell 933Mhz that still runs great. Well, it does have Linux on it, so that always helps.

 

[Eidorian]

Right, but... my two first machines were Inspiron and Dimension (laptop, minitower). After that I had another Inspiron before I moved to an XPS and a Precision. I also set up a Dimension my ex-girlfriend bought. The only one that didn't ship with only Windows installed was the second Inspiron, it had Norton installed but that's because I ordered it that way. So I'm still guessing there's a difference between US/EU. Just looking at the Dell US site, the configuration pages are littered with lots of crap we don't get over here.


Yikes!

I'll have to check the Best Buy display machines when I have the chance to see what's installed on them. The last XPS Studio system I ordered for a client only shipped with Dell's support software, McAfee AV, and Adobe Acrobat Reader beyond Windows + drivers.

I remember an old Dimension 3100 and E521 shipping with just AV and Adobe Acrobat Reader as well. I can't vouch for HP or Sony though. I've known HP to be notoriously bad with OEM ware installed.

 

[polaris20]

Thats kind of unfair, 90% of computers made use Windows. Most people use windows for work, even Mac users.

If they had their choice, they probably wouldn't. However, most work places want cheap, easily replaceable computers. Thats a PC!

My work is implementing thin clients to cut IT costs. Rather then upgrade a pile of machines, we just upgrade the server. Even our old computers are set-up as thin clients now.

Makes IT's job a bit easier too.

I work at a small company, 150 people. Our IT department is 4 people. Most of them have Mac's at home, and our network engineer hackintoshed a Dell mini 9. haha.

Thin clients? Do your servers run Citrix? Terminal Services? Do they have MS Office on them? Just curious.

 

[milo]

Windows 7, coming this summer (NH) to every Best Buy, Fry's, Amazon, Newegg and other store in the world.

And at that point we can finally see if it lives up to the hype.

Unfortunately for you, Blu-ray can put out 8 channel 96 KHz 24-bit uncompressed audio.

Compressed 5.1 just isn't there.

And what makes you so sure that macs can't put play back that format? The limitation of the mini seems to be that it doesn't have the bluray drive, not that the audio playback or optical out is limited.

LOL, you were really taken by your computer salesman.

I'd agree that you shouldn't have to buy a new PC when it slows to a crawl. What do you suggest as an alternative, wiping the hard drive and reinstalling the OS and apps? So why does that happen on PCs but not macs? I have never seen that kind performance degradation on a mac.

 

[Eidorian]

Thin clients? Do your servers run Citrix? Terminal Services? Do they have MS Office on them? Just curious.

Please be SunRays.

 

[IrishSniper87]

Thin clients? Do your servers run Citrix? Terminal Services? Do they have MS Office on them? Just curious.

Our VM's have an install of Windows XP and Microsoft Office.

I think we use 2X.

Not a single machine in the entire company uses Vista.

We have an exchange server and most of the employees carry iPhone 3G's.

EDIT: Some of the employees have Laptops. They are all XP also.
Also, all of the machines have Adobe Acrobat Professional.

 

[polaris20]

Our VM's have an install of Windows XP and Microsoft Office.

I think we use 2X.

Not a single machine in the entire company uses Vista.

We have an exchange server and most of the employees carry iPhone 3G's.

XenDesktop or VDI?

 

[Journojulz]

So.....reformat the drive.

Did that with my xp mesh.
It reminded me just how awful getting xp to a usable state was.
Took days to get it comfortable.
And movie maker still crashed on launch.

On the other hand, unboxing macs has been a joy.

 

[AidenShaw]

Check your prices again....

Anuba: The Nehalem quad 2.66 costs 50% more than a Dell Precision with the exact same specs.

Last time I compared their prices, they were more or less the same. And the Mac pro has the best-engineered chassis out there.

The list price of the Dell is about 70% of the price of the Mac Pro quad, and the Dell exceeds the specs of the Mac Pro in a couple of areas.

Dell's prices are often discounted, so the quote that Anuba got over the phone could very easily have been 50% cheaper.

I got a phone quote for the same configuration with the W3570 3.2 GHz quad core, and it costs less than the 2.66 GHz Mac Pro.

[B]Dell Precision T3500 64bit                       Mac Pro Quad[/B]
======================================           ========================================
 
[B]Price  $ 1,980[/B]                                 Price     $ 2,748
 
Vista® Business Service Pack 1,                  Mac OSX, 32-bit kernel, 64-bit app
     with media, 64-bit

Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3520                     Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3520
     2.66GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s, Turbo                   2.66GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s, Turbo
     [url=http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupId=39718](W3520 spec)[/url]

3GiB, 1066MHz,DDR3 SDRAM,                        3GiB, 1066MHz,DDR3 SDRAM,
     ECC (3x1GiB DIMMS)                               ECC (3x1GiB DIMMS)

[B]Six DDR3 memory slots [/B]                        Four DDR3 memory slots

[B]512MiB NVIDIA® Quadro® FX 580,[/B]               512 MiB NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
     [B]DUAL MON, 2 DP & 1 DVI[/B]                           DUAL MON, 1 MDP & 1 DVI

[B]750GB SATA 3Gb/s with NCQ[/B] and                 640 GB SATA 7200
     16MB DataBurst Cache™

16X DVD+/-RW w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD™              [B]18x DVD+/-RW[/B]
     and Roxio Creator™ Dell Ed

Dell QuietKey Keyboard                           Apple Keyboard with numeric pad

Dell USB 2 Button Optical Mouse                  Apple Mighty Mouse

3 Year Basic Limited Warranty and                3 Year AppleCare
     [B]3 Year Next Business Day Onsite Service[/B]

Price difference: $ 768

Bold highlights the "better" items where there are significant differences

 

[ericinboston]

Anyway, I have used Windows 95, 98, ME, and XP and have esperienced many many BSOD. It's just something you have to deal with.

That is complete slander. BSODs are not something people have to deal with (implying it happens to all people at some point in each computer/Windows OS' life). If it did, MS would have fixed/removed/whatever BSOD a long time ago...bad press long before the internet boom would have forced MS to do something. Yes, BSODs happen to some people...and we've discussed how/why BSODs occur. My personal experience as an IT professional as well as my home personal experience with all flavors of Windows is that 99% of BSODs occur from a driver issue. From that I would say 80% of driver issues are video driver issues. The last BSOD I personally have gotten on any home or work machine was years ago on WinNT 4.0 when I replaced the video card and didn't follow the instructions. My own fault.

Offer polite suggestions on how I can do things better. But don't be a ****.

You talking to me about this polite suggestions stuff?

 

[polaris20]

Did that with my xp mesh.
It reminded me just how awful getting xp to a usable state was.
Took days to get it comfortable.
And movie maker still crashed on launch.

On the other hand, unboxing macs has been a joy.

I'd recommend DriveImage XML, Clonezilla, or DriveSnapshot.

Stay away from Symantec Ghost; while the corporate version is still decent, the consumer one sucks these days.

DI-XML and Clonezilla are free for home users, DriveSnapshot is like $40. Get the machine the way you want it, then image it.

Re-image your machine when your install gets crusty. 20-30 minutes.

 

[rotta]

Just wondering - how much is unboxing worth in $$? Is that the Apple tax??

 

[IrishSniper87]

XenDesktop or VDI?

Not sure. I turned off the thin client and turned it back on and it just said :

2X

ThinClientOS5

I can check on Monday, I'm logging off for the weekend now

 

[IrishSniper87]

That is complete slander. BSODs are not something people have to deal with (implying it happens to all people at some point in each computer/Windows OS' life). If it did, MS would have fixed/removed/whatever BSOD a long time ago...bad press long before the internet boom would have forced MS to do something. Yes, BSODs happen to some people...and we've discussed how/why BSODs occur. My personal experience as an IT professional as well as my home personal experience with all flavors of Windows is that 99% of BSODs occur from a driver issue. From that I would say 80% of driver issues are video driver issues. The last BSOD I personally have gotten on any home or work machine was years ago on WinNT 4.0 when I replaced the video card and didn't follow the instructions. My own fault.



You talking to me about this polite suggestions stuff?

No people in general, sorry if it looked like I was singling you out.

 

[polaris20]

The list price of the Dell is about 70% of the price of the Mac Pro quad, and the Dell exceeds the specs of the Mac Pro in a couple of areas.

Dell's prices are often discounted, so the quote that Anuba got over the phone could very easily have been 50% cheaper.

I got a phone quote for the same configuration with the W3570 3.2 GHz quad core, and it costs less than the 2.66 GHz Mac Pro.

[B]Dell Precision T3500 64bit                       Mac Pro Quad[/B]
======================================           ========================================
 
[B]Price  $ 1,980[/B]                                 Price     $ 2,748
 
Vista® Business Service Pack 1,                  Mac OSX, 32-bit kernel, 64-bit app
     with media, 64-bit

Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3520                     Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3520
     2.66GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s, Turbo                   2.66GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s, Turbo
     [url=http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupId=39718](W3520 spec)[/url]

3GiB, 1066MHz,DDR3 SDRAM,                        3GiB, 1066MHz,DDR3 SDRAM,
     ECC (3x1GiB DIMMS)                               ECC (3x1GiB DIMMS)

[B]Six DDR3 memory slots [/B]                        Four DDR3 memory slots

[B]512MiB NVIDIA® Quadro® FX 580,[/B]               512 MiB NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
     [B]DUAL MON, 2 DP & 1 DVI[/B]                           DUAL MON, 1 MDP & 1 DVI

[B]750GB SATA 3Gb/s with NCQ[/B] and                 640 GB SATA 7200
     16MB DataBurst Cache™

16X DVD+/-RW w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD™              [B]18x DVD+/-RW[/B]
     and Roxio Creator™ Dell Ed

Dell QuietKey Keyboard                           Apple Keyboard with numeric pad

Dell USB 2 Button Optical Mouse                  Apple Mighty Mouse

3 Year Basic Limited Warranty and                3 Year AppleCare
     [B]3 Year Next Business Day Onsite Service[/B]

Price difference: $ 768

Bold highlights the "better" items where there are significant differences

FYI, Apple business customers also get better deals too. We just got $400 off a Quad 2.93Ghz. Still more than the Dell, obviously, but actually cheaper than CDW and HP themselves quoted the Z400 (MP Quad/T3500 equiv.).

 

[Eidorian]

I'd recommend DriveImage XML, Clonezilla, or DriveSnapshot.

Stay away from Symantec Ghost; while the corporate version is still decent, the consumer one sucks these days.

DI-XML and Clonezilla are free for home users, DriveSnapshot is like $40. Get the machine the way you want it, then image it.

Re-image your machine when your install gets crusty. 20-30 minutes.

I'd do imaging but I don't like dealing with the update game after that once perfect state. I'm waiting for Vista SP 2 to roll around and start over clean from there. I do backup my user space though on Vista for the next time around.

 

[polaris20]

Not sure. I turned off the thin client and turned it back on and it just said :

2X

ThinClientOS5

I can check on Monday, I'm logging off for the weekend now

No I was referring to the server side. An individual here doesn't think you can install Office apps on a server, and didn't comprehend Terminal Services, Citrix XenApp, or client/server computing in general.

 

[milo]

Just wondering - how much is unboxing worth in $$? Is that the Apple tax??

Depends how much your time is worth. Saving some cash loses some appeal if the tradeoff is giving up more time.

 

[polaris20]

I'd do imaging but I don't like dealing with the update game after that once perfect state. I'm waiting for Vista SP 2 to roll around and start over clean from there. I do backup my user space though on Vista for the next time around.

I know what you mean. My Ghost image directory at work currently has about 10 different models, with each one having 2-3 revisions (in case there's a conflict with an update and an application). Keeping them all updated is a pain in the ass.

Apparently Win7 is going to enable IT admins to do just one image per major architecture, i.e. Intel and AMD. No worries of chipset conflicts, and the resulting BSODs. I hope it works, because that would be fantastic.

 

[rotta]

Depends how much your time is worth. Saving some cash loses some appeal if the tradeoff is giving up more time.

Startup time of my Macbook Pro and my work HP with XP is about the same. And neither has had the need to reformat and reinstall anything. I prefer the Mac gui, but the other machine does the job just as well.

What tradeoff??

 

[milo]

What tradeoff??

Time spent configuring and troubleshooting. Obviously, that is going to vary a lot between different users and machines for many reasons.

 

[Eidorian]

I know what you mean. My Ghost image directory at work currently has about 10 different models, with each one having 2-3 revisions (in case there's a conflict with an update and an application). Keeping them all updated is a pain in the ass.

Yeah it got into the same mess imaging the Macs at work. Network home directories made the user space a non-issue but you still ended up having to keep a few previous versions and a branch or two in case all hell broke loose.

Apparently Win7 is going to enable IT admins to do just one image per major architecture, i.e. Intel and AMD. No worries of chipset conflicts, and the resulting BSODs. I hope it works, because that would be fantastic.

SIGN ME UP

The driver support under Windows 7 is godly. I only had to install the ATI Catalyst drivers back in build 7000.