Millennial asleep at the wheel on Communism


thermodynamic

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May 3, 2009
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So is communism when we don't value work, or cheapen it, or believe that everyone who puts in should get a reasonable share?

What about people who had to train their foreign communist replacements? Or when companies gave source code to communist countries, for which they themselves still say they they are Communist? (I've posted links before, but will re-post one: http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/23/100134488/index.htm )
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,999
What exactly is this **** "article" supposed to be about?

Purposely conflating "collectivism" with communism? Trying to scare a generation that has seen the effects of, practically speaking, unregulated corporate capitalism into believing the system we currently live under into thinking nothing needs to change?

We're going to be digging out of the hole that Reaganism and the Boomers/Gen X'ers left for us, if you expect this system to stand without major reforms I've got some land for you....

"Asleep at the wheel on communism", what a ****ing joke. I get that the Democrats and Republicans are desperately trying to find the new boogeyman as the terrorism monster is rapidly running out of steam....but to go back to the Cold War is a laughable attempt.
 

Snoopy4

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 29, 2014
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What exactly is this **** "article" supposed to be about?

Purposely conflating "collectivism" with communism? Trying to scare a generation that has seen the effects of, practically speaking, unregulated corporate capitalism into believing the system we currently live under into thinking nothing needs to change?

We're going to be digging out of the hole that Reaganism and the Boomers/Gen X'ers left for us, if you expect this system to stand without major reforms I've got some land for you....

"Asleep at the wheel on communism", what a ****ing joke. I get that the Democrats and Republicans are desperately trying to find the new boogeyman as the terrorism monster is rapidly running out of steam....but to go back to the Cold War is a laughable attempt.

Clearly, based on your response, the survey is correct.
 
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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
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Clearly, based on your response, the survey is correct.
The survey is nonsensical. Where is communism still operational on the planet? Russia isn't actual communism anymore, China is arguably more capitalistic in it's economic operations than our own oligarchic system.

I think what you're trying to buy into here is the absurd notion that any form of collectivism is "communism", as a roundabout way of trying to take the wind out of the sails of democratic socialism.

The problem? We're literate and can tell the difference.
 
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yaxomoxay

macrumors 68040
Mar 3, 2010
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I'll take democratic socialism over corporate capitalism any day.

One is built for and by humans, the other serves only legal fictions we call "persons".
That's because you haven't seen socialism firsthand. Am I right?
Do you honestly think that socialism thinks that humans are "persons"?

(and "democratic" doesn't sugarcoat the concept that means of productions are not in the hand of the people but of bureaucracies/committees/cooperatives).
 
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Snoopy4

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Original poster
Dec 29, 2014
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That's because you haven't seen socialism firsthand. Am I right?
Do you honestly think that socialism thinks that humans are "persons"?

(and "democratic" doesn't sugarcoat the concept that means of productions are not in the hand of the people but of bureaucracies/committees/cooperatives).
Oh, but my hippie prof says...
[doublepost=1476798234][/doublepost]
Socialism and Communism are not the same thing.
You're right. One kills its citizens faster than the other. Both suffer.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,409
That's because you haven't seen socialism firsthand. Am I right?
Do you honestly think that socialism thinks that humans are "persons"?

(and "democratic" doesn't sugarcoat the concept that means of productions are not in the hand of the people but of bureaucracies/committees/cooperatives).

Who is advocating for the government to own the means of production. Other than you, of course?
 

tgara

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Jul 17, 2012
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Connecticut, USA
I think this stems from a lack of historical education on the topic. Since 1989, there has been a whole generation raised without a major threat of communism. For them, a world without communism or its atrocities is the way it's always been. This seems to me to be analogous to young women today not appreciating the feminist movement of the 1960s and 1970s. The history of what came before and how we got to where we are now is not being taught.
 
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VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
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...
What's that old saying...those who ignore history are bound to repeat it or something...
Exactly, but I think this might apply to you more than the millennials: First, it has always been perfectly legal for Americans to support communist candidates, and the US has had its share of people who supported communism. Second, the atrocities attributed to communism boil down actually to dictatorships, examples of which can be found in the histories of both the Left and the Right. In the US now it seems to me that a dictatorship from the Right is more likely than from the Left. Third, I think you'll find what these kind of polls show is that the millennials are more egalitarian than baby-boomers and Gen X'ers (who are also more egalitarian the boomers). I view the rise of the millennials as the one thing that possibly will prevent runaway wealth inequality in the years to come, and I can't wait for this new generation to start replacing crotchety selfish scared old folks.

EDIT: Fourth: democratic socialism ≠ communism.
 

yaxomoxay

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Mar 3, 2010
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Exactly, but I think this might apply to you more than the millennials: First, it has always been perfectly legal for Americans to support communist candidates, and the US has had its share of people who supported communism.
I don't think that anyone here is advocating prosecution of communists/socialists/fascists in the US.

Second, the atrocities attributed to communism boil down actually to dictatorships, examples of which can be found in the histories of both the Left and the Right.
Communism can't survive without a dictatorship/oligarchy the same way that fascism can't survive without a dictatorship/oligarchy.

Third, I think you'll find what these kind of polls show is that the millennials are more egalitarian than baby-boomers and Gen X'ers (who are also more egalitarian the boomers). I view the rise of the millennials as the one thing that possibly will prevent runaway wealth inequality in the years to come, and I can't wait for this new generation to start replacing crotchety selfish scared old folks.
Some millennials are egalitarian in a social sense (=equal opportunity), some in a more Robesperian point of view (=socialist). Others are straightforward capitalists. I disagree with the article that the OP posted; I don't think that the problem is related to millennials, I think it's just general ignorance of political and socio-economical systems. The fact that history is now seen as a superfluous subject highly distresses me... it's showing up. I am not going to fault millennials, at least not just them. Previous generations made a mess, and millennials grew up in a very strange environment. What scares me is that millennials - not only through their own faults - by not knowing history, or even basic economics, can't make informed decisions. Some of the stuff I hear is downright scary.

EDIT: Fourth: democratic socialism ≠ communism.
I think we all know that.
 
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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
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You're right. One kills its citizens faster than the other. Both suffer.
I'll ignore your sad stereotyping of college indoctrination (Jokes on you buddy, I never showed up for most classes, and it's a real indictment that the best financial decision I ever made was dropping out, putting me in a different world financially over my friends...for the better).

Instead, I'll ask you to explain how the vast majority of Americans aren't suffering when our own country doesn't guarantee healthcare, paid sick time, paid family leave for those with new borns, any guaranteed vacation time, a minimum wage so low that you're still in poverty working full time. It's a sick joke.

Willful blindness to the abject failures of American style (that is, corporate) capitalism does not erase those failures.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
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I don't think that anyone here is advocating prosecution of communists/socialists/fascists in the US.
Understood, but there is an implied argument that a 'Communist' must always be an enemy. In any case it does seem to me that we have failed to teach history adequately both in the US and UK, so I guess we both agree on that.
 
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yaxomoxay

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Mar 3, 2010
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Understood, but there is an implied argument that a 'Communist' must always be an enemy. In any case it does seem to me that we have failed to teach history adequately both in the US and UK.
Yep, and from what I hear talking to friends and family also Italian schools are not really teaching history. It is bad for all of us.
I think that it's just lack of curiosity, probably killed by television first and internet later. It's way too easy to get distracted, and retaining information is now considered less valuable ("I can just google it from my phone"). Too bad that the side effect of this is that it destroys any skill for analysis and correlations.
I still suggest the book "World Order" by Kissinger, and I will suggest it for the foreseeable future. There's a specific chapter on modern lifestyle (digital age) that should be mandatory reading for everyone. It's so good that Google's Eric Shmidt decided to invite Kissinger for a "fireside chat" (see youtube; if you want the book PM me) to discuss some of the topics.
 
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yaxomoxay

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Mar 3, 2010
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Ole Snoops is at it again with his Millennial boogeyman.
In his defense, this "millennial" mania has to end sooner or later. I can't read a newspaper/magazine/paper/blog without being forced into reading analysis on these ethereal millennials as if they were a science experiment. I hate using the term myself, although it entered the common vernacular with such a force that I don't know if it will ever stop.
 

jerwin

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Jun 13, 2015
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In his defense, this "millennial" mania has to end sooner or later. I can't read a newspaper/magazine/paper/blog without being forced into reading analysis on these ethereal millennials as if they were a science experiment. I hate using the term myself, although it entered the common vernacular with such a force that I don't know if it will ever stop.
I'll always have a soft spot for millennials in my chumbox.
http://www.popdust.com/millennials-are-drinking-so-much-wine-theyre-changing-how-its-sold-1889999083.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-hanft/the-stunning-evolution-of_b_6108412.html

Aside from that? Meh.
 

tshrimp

macrumors 6502
Mar 30, 2012
366
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The survey is nonsensical. Where is communism still operational on the planet? Russia isn't actual communism anymore, China is arguably more capitalistic in it's economic operations than our own oligarchic system.

I think what you're trying to buy into here is the absurd notion that any form of collectivism is "communism", as a roundabout way of trying to take the wind out of the sails of democratic socialism.

The problem? We're literate and can tell the difference.
I think you fail to see is that your posts are supporting the content of these articles.