Ming-Chi Kuo: Apple nixes plans to incorporate under-glass Touch ID in 'iPhone 8'

GrumpyMom

macrumors G3
Sep 11, 2014
8,662
12,364
Thanks for sharing the link.

Eh, whatever, for me. Even though Touch ID works great for me on my 7 Plus, I'm so used to it not working well for me all these years that I automatically tend to my pass code first anyway. And maybe Apple's face detection solution will be good. I don't use Apple Pay at registers, so it's all moot to me.

But I can understand other forum people being very upset at this news and really concerned about the possibility of no Touch ID at all. For their sakes I hope there's still some form of Touch ID implemented somehow.
 

Relentless Power

macrumors Nehalem
Jul 12, 2016
32,909
33,755
Thanks for sharing the link.

Eh, whatever, for me. Even though Touch ID works great for me on my 7 Plus, I'm so used to it not working well for me all these years that I automatically tend to my pass code first anyway. And maybe Apple's face detection solution will be good. I don't use Apple Pay at registers, so it's all moot to me
If touch ID is nonexistent for the iPhone 8, then Apple certainly has something in store that they're confident of will be in place of it with facial recognition. As much as they value security, I'm sure they will have this technology ready to be introduced that will offer features we are not fully aware of yet. I say let's see the future.
 

RtWrecklezX

macrumors member
Apr 13, 2009
90
82
If Apple releases the iPhone 8 with this FaceID as a disabled feature I will be extremely disappointed. I might be either way if it is released and is found to be buggy. This will be another half working product release just like that portrait more camera with the iPhone 7+.
 

LoveToMacRumors

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Feb 15, 2015
2,407
2,004
Canada
If Apple releases the iPhone 8 with this FaceID as a disabled feature I will be extremely disappointed. I might be either way if it is released and is found to be buggy. This will be another half working product release just like that portrait more camera with the iPhone 7+.
I'm sure it won't be perfect. Especially with people with glasses, beards, hats, scarves that cover the mouth. Maybe with software updates, they will make it better.
 

RtWrecklezX

macrumors member
Apr 13, 2009
90
82
I'm sure it won't be perfect. Especially with people with glasses, beards, hats, scarves that cover the mouth. Maybe with software updates, they will make it better.
A refurbished 6S will probably be the best value phone. Seems like a transition period for the iPhone.
 

Greenmeenie

macrumors 65816
Jan 14, 2013
1,379
1,901
If this be true...i will skip the iphone 8 and get the iphone 7s plus. It just seems like the 8 has been plauged with a lot of production issues. Maybe thats par for the course, but i'll gladly wait until Apple works out the touch id under the glass issue. I'll be fine with with the 7s plus. I only hope it gets the same camera improvements that the 8 is gonna get. Its all good tho. September is only a month away.
 

Meus Renaissance

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2017
13
5
There needs to be a cost-benefit discussion of these recent changes.

Have Cupertino actually decided to remove bezels at the cost of TouchID - arguably the most defining feature of the phone in recent years?

They removed the ports on the Macbook Pro to shave off 3mm, and removed the headphone jack whilst touting expensive wireless earphones as the alternative. Removing TouchID in order to showcase a different iPhone seems to fit this pattern; the cost/benefit viewpoint seems to be irrelevant.

We should all be sceptical and concerned. I genuinely don't understand how anyone could be optimistic about the concept of having to rely on front-facing cameras to unlock the phone or pay transactions with it. I'm personally at the point of worrying each year what Apple will remove, rather than what they will add.
 

DNichter

macrumors G3
Apr 27, 2015
8,963
10,076
Philadelphia, PA
There needs to be a cost-benefit discussion of these recent changes.

Have Cupertino actually decided to remove bezels at the cost of TouchID - arguably the most defining feature of the phone in recent years?

They removed the ports on the Macbook Pro to shave off 3mm, and removed the headphone jack whilst touting expensive wireless earphones as the alternative. Removing TouchID in order to showcase a different iPhone seems to fit this pattern; the cost/benefit viewpoint seems to be irrelevant.

We should all be sceptical and concerned. I genuinely don't understand how anyone could be optimistic about the concept of having to rely on front-facing cameras to unlock the phone or pay transactions with it. I'm personally at the point of worrying each year what Apple will remove, rather than what they will add.
Technology will always move forward. A feature that relies on less touches, no wires, etc. will always be down the road at some point. You could switch out of the ecosystem if this doesnt play nice with you, but all tech companies will follow suit if Apple is successful. If Apple can introduce a seamless and secure way to unlock the phone by glancing at it, that would be good, right?
 
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Meus Renaissance

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2017
13
5
Technology will always move forward. A feature that relies on less touches, no wires, etc. will always be down the road at some point. You could switch out of the ecosystem if this doesnt play nice with you, but all tech companies will follow suit if Apple is successful. If Apple can introduce a seamless and secure way to unlock the phone by glancing at it, that would be good, right?
Technological improvements should make things easier. TouchID was great as it meant passcodes were no longer necessary - the phone could be unlocked faster, therefore. If the new system requires me to glance at the phone to unlock, then it is a step-back. If, however, I don't have to change my behaviour, then I welcome it.

But let's not kid ourselves - there is no conceivable benefit of using a camera to replace TouchID. This leads us to reasonably conclude that the original intent was to include TouchID under the screen if it were possible, and therefore ask what concessions were made.

We should be asking these questions.
 

noobinator

macrumors 604
Jun 19, 2009
6,544
5,634
Pasadena, CA
This is the same as last year but just later this time. Last year we wanted this tech and experts said it wasn't ready so Apple would have to wait for the 2017 iPhone 8/7s to implement this.

Their face scanning will be used for Apple Pay I'm guessing.
 

DNichter

macrumors G3
Apr 27, 2015
8,963
10,076
Philadelphia, PA
Technological improvements should make things easier. TouchID was great as it meant passcodes were no longer necessary - the phone could be unlocked faster, therefore. If the new system requires me to glance at the phone to unlock, then it is a step-back. If, however, I don't have to change my behaviour, then I welcome it.
So you think that glancing at your phone isn't faster than moving your arm to place your finger on it? Honestly, we both have no idea how it will be implemented, but I have to believe that Apple would be pretty confident that it will be a better solution or they wouldn't introduce it. Mainly I think we should be open to the change as I think it could potentially be better than Touch ID. Let's wait and see though.
 

Meus Renaissance

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2017
13
5
So you think that glancing at your phone isn't faster than moving your arm to place your finger on it? Honestly, we both have no idea how it will be implemented, but I have to believe that Apple would be pretty confident that it will be a better solution or they wouldn't introduce it. Mainly I think we should be open to the change as I think it could potentially be better than Touch ID. Let's wait and see though.
Of course there are some instances whereby a camera would be quicker, but overall, those instances would be few and far between when compared to how easy TouchID is.

  1. Phone is on a flat surface. I reach for it whilst my face is turned away. Screen is unlocked.
  2. I'm in bed at night - the light is switched off. I reach for my phone. Screen is unlocked.
  3. I want to use Apple Pay on one of the public transport stalls. If I had to face it, I would have stand to make sure my face would be within the camera's range. As it stands, I can get through the stalls within 2 seconds. I don't need to look anywhere - I just extend the phone and walk through. Using a camera would slow that down.

So if we compare the cost and benefits of the two, it's cleary that there are fewer benefits and greater costs in replacing TouchID with cameras. If Apple can show us a different technique that would remove the costs as mentioned above, then I will be pre-ordering my phone iPhone 8. I am not, however, going to pay money I work hard for in order to accept a step back, and be a martyr for "technological advancement".

but I have to believe that Apple would be pretty confident that it will be a better solution or they wouldn't introduce it.
I would like to think that too, but considering their recent hardware changes, i.e. the Mackbook Pro, I don't know anymore. I don't think we can give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.
 

DNichter

macrumors G3
Apr 27, 2015
8,963
10,076
Philadelphia, PA
Of course there are some instances whereby a camera would be quicker, but overall, those instances would be few and far between when compared to how easy TouchID is.

  1. Phone is on a flat surface. I reach for it whilst my face is turned away. Screen is unlocked.
  2. I'm in bed at night - the light is switched off. I reach for my phone. Screen is unlocked.
  3. I want to use Apple Pay on one of the public transport stalls. If I had to face it, I would have stand to make sure my face would be within the camera's range. As it stands, I can get through the stalls within 2 seconds. I don't need to look anywhere - I just extend the phone and walk through. Using a camera would slow that down.

So if we compare the cost and benefits of the two, it's cleary that there are fewer benefits and greater costs in replacing TouchID with cameras. If Apple can show us a different technique that would remove the costs as mentioned above, then I will be pre-ordering my phone iPhone 8. I am not, however, going to pay money I work hard for in order to accept a step back, and be a martyr for "technological advancement".



I would like to think that too, but considering their recent hardware changes, i.e. the Mackbook Pro, I don't know anymore. I don't think we can give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.
From everything you described, we have no idea if it will be better or worse at this time. Maybe I am not sure what you are saying. So you are looking away from your phone but reach for it, pick it up, place your finger on it, and then it unlocks? Seems unlikely, but I guess that's better? I feel like that would be hard to do. In the dark? The front cameras are supposed to be infrared so maybe that's a non issue also? I think it's silly to argue that it cannot work until we see how it is implemented. The good thing is, you don't have to buy it.

Also, what was wrong with the MacBook Pro? People tend to ignore the good and point out the few instances where their solution is not ideal. Apple has been very successful in hardware.
 
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Glideslope

macrumors 603
Dec 7, 2007
6,343
3,417
A quiet place in NY.
Man, this had better be a breakthrough. Talk about rolling the dice. If Timmy is counting on users to upgrade simply because it's an iPhone, and the new ID system is not bullet proof he needs to go. :apple:
 

santela

macrumors regular
May 15, 2017
161
233
I see a lot of blind confidence in Apple on this forum like "if Apple decides to do it then it must be perfect". No, that's not true. While Apple is a lot more trustworthy than most other companies, I do not share this blind faith that anything Apple puts out will be better.

Take Face ID for example, many people seem to think it will work without any hiccups. Will it work when I'm wear shades? What about hats or scarfs? What about motorcycle helmets? I spend a lot of time in Southern California and I can't walk outside without my shades. Do I have to take them off every time I wanna check my phone? Or does Face ID work even with shades? Then how is that secure?

There are a lot of potential problems if this feature is going to replace Touch ID, stop assuming it will be perfect. If they get rid of Touch ID it won't be because Face ID is so much better, it will be because they can't put it under the display and have too much pride to put it anywhere else. I definitely hope all those rumors are wrong.
 

noobinator

macrumors 604
Jun 19, 2009
6,544
5,634
Pasadena, CA
Every security implementation will have limitations. TouchID doesn't work with most gloves either. Just as face ID wouldn't work under a helmet.
 
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