Mississippi Legislature Passes Bill Allowing Student-Led Prayer in Schools

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by steve knight, Apr 11, 2013.

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  1. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #1
    Would they allow a Muslim to lead the prayer or a jew? Hell no this is about forcing Christianity down everyone's throat. The non christian kids would suffer and i think part of this is to convert them too. Anyone that thinks this is a good idea has not thought out the consequences of it.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/m...allowing-student-led-prayer-in-schools-91742/

    The Mississippi Legislature passed a bill allowing student-led prayer in public schools with a majority vote in both the Senate and the House.

    Senate Bill 2633 – also known as "The Mississippi Student Religious Liberties Act of 2013"– prohibits public schools in the state from discrimination due to student's expression of religious beliefs. The bill, which passed March 6, has been sent to Gov. Phil Bryant for his signature.

    Representative Mark Formby (R-Pearl River) has introduced a school prayer bill every year since 2009. He shared with The Christian Post on Tuesday his reasoning for supporting such a bill, saying, "Legislators, especially those who claim to be Christian and that represent constituencies that are predominately Christian according to polling, should make proactive moves to stand in the gap. That's what I see this particular bill doing."

    Formby, who is of the Baptist faith, went on to say, "I think that it is very obvious, any casual by-stander can tell that there is an attack on religion in general, especially on Christianity."

    The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the ACLU of Mississippi sent a letter in a separate matter to a local Mississippi school district in October demanding that there be an end "to its widespread practice of promoting religious beliefs to students, faculty and staff," according to an official document.

    In spite of possible opposition, Formby expects the bill to become law soon. The State Senate passed the bill with an overwhelming majority vote of 50-1. The House passed the bill with a vote of 109-6, with 5 not voting, absent or voting present.

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    The bill states that in addition to student-led prayer, it will provide for voluntary student expression of religious viewpoints in public schools and in class assignments. The legislation currently reads, "Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions." It goes on to say that students may not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work.

    Allowance is also made for students to have freedom to organize religious groups, gatherings and activities before, during and after the school day as well as a "limited public forum" for student speakers at non-graduation and graduation events with an opportunity to offer religious expression. The Model Policy includes provisions that allow students selected under certain criteria the opportunity to introduce football games and speak at graduation ceremonies without discrimination against religious views they hold.

    The bill also permits students in public schools to wear clothing, accessories and jewelry that display religious messages or religious symbols in the same manner and to the same extent that other types of clothing, accessories and jewelry that display messages or symbols are permitted.

    Gov. Phil Bryant is expected to sign the bill by Mar 18. Once signed by the governor, the act will take effect on July 1 and will be applied in the 2013-14 school year.
     
  2. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #2
    Insane.

    So if a test asked "Please explain why science event x most likely happened" and the student replied "Because God made it that way", does that mean their answer cannot to be marked false?

    Furthermore, religion in schools is putting our youth on the wrong path.
     
  3. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    I've always wondered why is it such a problem to accept science as God's work. Why do some dismiss science in the name of religion, as if it goes against biblical stories?

    Just asking cause I'm not religious.
     
  4. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    Actually I can't wait until some Muslim students do try to lead in prayer. It's bound to happen sooner or later, and when it does the **** will hit the fan! You can bet that the same people who endorsed this law will be among those protesting.
     
  5. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #5

    Oh no, we can't be having none of those terrorists praying.


    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/04/10/1847581/north-carolina-muslim-terrorism/
     
  6. TedM macrumors 6502

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    #6
    not for or against. Students should have the option to pray to whatever religion they want and opt out of any prayer. Shouldn't be anymore complicated than that.
     
  7. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #7
    Actually, everyone has that option already. It's called freedom of religion.

    Does that mean you can practice your religion and interrupt the school's environment at the same time? No.
     
  8. TedM macrumors 6502

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    Actually I'm pretty sure muslims pray 5 times a day at certain times.
    http://islam.about.com/cs/prayer/a/prayer_times.htm

    While maybe this shouldn't interrupt education, we're supposed to be a country that respects all religions as you say. At least one happens during school hours, So my guess is yes it will interrupt the school environment and possibly they'd even extend a school day to deal with it. Or maybe shorten lunch. You can be cranky about the specifics else where.
     
  9. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #9
    Actually we should neither respect nor disrespect any religion.

    Bottom line is religion has no place in schools.
     
  10. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #10
    This isn't bad. I thought that it made Christianity official religion. This bill isn't that bad and does not force anyone to do anything they aren't voluntarily doing.

    It says it right there in your link. It is all voluntary. If you are a different religion, then you can't be punished, even better if you don't believe since no one can force you.

    I see this as a protection for Christians and Atheists. It just makes it easier for those how wish to have prayers with fellow believers.


    Next time you rant, make it worthwhile. Like attacking civil liberties. This law doesn't do it.
     
  11. steve knight thread starter macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    Really so public prayers are Just ignored and you don't have to listen right? This is public school not private school. If you want these things to to a religious school. This is really only for Christians and only certain brads of Christians. Religious freedom is only if you belong to the right brand of christian. If you think different you have not been paying attention to these things.
     
  12. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #12
    I'll bolden the parts I think are most important to notice. This law, if enforced appropriately could actually do a lot of good. Seems to me like it's a way to prevent discrimination, which I think everyone can agree should be a goal we all strive for.

    Though it seems that some of you advocate discrimination only in the case of religious expression.

     
  13. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    They do now. Why should precious public school time be given over to religious practice?

    Once again, why? Kids have recess, lunch and probably some kind of study hall. Shouldn't overt religious practices be dealt with during personal free time rather than taking even more time away from studying?

    I honestly don't see any justification for this. If anything, I can see the evangelical kids stand up and forcing their prayers on everyone else, simply to get out of studying. This is not a sign of intelligence.
     
  14. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    You don't like to read right? Or you most likely don't know how to. The bill allows for STUDENT LED prayers. In other words, a student can do it. It doesn't say teachers, school admins, it doesn't say a priest. No. It says students.

    Now, calm your phobia a bit. Also, there may be different 'flavors' of religion, but religious freedom of expression prohibits one denomination from discrimination the other within Christianity. That has been pretty clear.
     
  15. steve knight thread starter macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    Really? You truly think Christians tolerate other religions? live and let live? well as long as their parents are not evangelical or fundies it may be. I very much doubt anyone but Christians will find this good. This will just separate people as religion tends to do. Kids have enough problems fitting in without having religious pressures involved.
    Christians can't even agree with each other.
    So how many clubs will be needed to support all of the different christian versions of Christianity?

    ----------

    yes I find Christians just love to tolerate other beliefs. they have shown that all over the world. I see it when they come knocking on my door or bug me while on the bus.
    I am sure these Christian politicians really are worried about Muslim rights and catholic rights and Jew rights. If you believe that I have a bridge for sale.
    GOP religious freedom has only been christian freedom. I can post many samples of Christians are persecuted and need religious freedom.
     
  16. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    Who says it will be, I didn't see anything in that summary that mentioned that school will be halted while students express religious belief. I'm pretty sure this law is just to ensure that they aren't penalized for mentioning their faith in public. It's to protect against folks like some on here who would fail a student, or place them on their $#!t list for any remotely religious action. It's to protect kids with religious affiliation from bigotry.


    First off, it's not your place, nor anyone else's except perhaps the parents to say when a child should or shouldn't be studying. You don't get to decide how many hours per day are required.

    Forcing their prayers on others? What is the mere act of hearing a prayer make someone an assault victim now?
     
  17. SLC Flyfishing, Apr 11, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013

    SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #17
    Yes, I do. Unfortunately it's often the loudest, most annoying voices that get a group painted with a broad brush. Don't confuse Westboro with mainstream christianity.

    Really? You don't think a Jewish child would appreciate being protected from discrimination for wearing a skull cap to school? You don't think a young muslim woman wouldn't benefit or appreciate a law that protects her from discrimination for wearing the hijab? We can argue all day about whether or not people will actually follow the law, but the text of the law is not up for debate. All religions are afforded protection in this non-discrimination law.

    Even if only Christians find it good, does that really matter? Would you say the same thing if only Gays found a law that protected them from discrimination for mentioning their sexuality in public, or wearing clothing that identified them as gay to be good?

    Would you say the same thing about laws designed to protect racial minorities if they were the only ones who thought the law was good?

    Be careful, your bigotry is showing already.


    Maybe it will, maybe it won't. We'll have to see what happens I suppose. But again, I'd refer you to my above argument. If it allows children to feel more comfortable in the learning environment, then I think it's a worthwhile law. And I don't think the intent of the law was necessarily to bring people together per-se; it would be a nice side effect if it did, but the idea is to prevent against discrimination.

    If anything, I'd have to imagine that not prohibiting the open expression of religious faith has at least a chance of enhancing diversity. If you don't think so, you aren't giving today's youth enough credit.


    Again, does that matter? I don't even think this law provides funds for religious clubs, so it shouldn't matter to you anyway?

    Well the law that just passed says differently. It provides protection from religious discrimination in schools, not just from Christian discrimination Perhaps you should just refinance that bridge?
     
  18. steve knight thread starter macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #18
    No christian would want to hear a islamic,jewish, pegan esc prayer. The religious freedom from the GOP has only been christian freedom. I have never heard from one of them that they are worried about other religions.
    kind of like making oral and anal sex illegal for all that really was just to stop gay marriage. You have to read between the lines to see the truth there is no way they could pass a law if they told the truth of what they really want.
     
  19. SLC Flyfishing, Apr 11, 2013
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    SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #19
    I would, I find other religions genuinely fascinating. There was nothing cooler than the muslim call to prayer over the loud speakers in Ternate, Indonesia a few years ago. That whole city just shut right down, it was a sight to see and I really enjoyed experiencing it.


    Maybe, maybe not. You have to do a lot of assuming to believe that statement is absolute truth. But the fact remains that they've passed a law that protects all religions equally. Again, I can acknowledge that people may not follow it, but that's neither here nor there. The law does not say anything about protecting specifically christian faiths.
     
  20. steve knight, Apr 11, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013

    steve knight thread starter macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    it is most conservative Christians don't think other religions are ok. They don't even think other brands of Christianity are true or those other people are true Christians.
    I don't think I have seen a GOP member worry about any other belief except to call them terrorists or some other thing.
    the only way to have true freedom of religion is to keep your religion to yourself.
     
  21. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #21
    Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but again, if you think this is the norm then you don't get out much.

    I don't blame you though, it's hard not to paint all atheists/agnostics as religion hating bigots too. In actuality, most of my atheist acquaintances (I'm in medicine so there are plenty) are very tolerant and respectful of my beliefs.

    I find that in my experience, when I'm willing to extend respect, it usually ends up being mutual...usually.
     
  22. steve knight thread starter macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    I just watch others and how they treat each other. Ask most non catholic Christians if Catholics are true Christians and you will get the same answer.
    Its sad but true too. Christians have shown throughout the ages they do not tolerate others beliefs.
    I have nto seen the GOP do anything that dos anything but promote their christian beliefs and hurts others in the process.
     
  23. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #23
    The same could be said about my faith, most "Christians" don't necessarily think we're true "Christians", but we get along and I don't worry too much about whether or not they think I'm Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ, try to follow his teachings to the best of my ability, and enjoy life. If that's not enough to be part of the "Christian" establishment, then that's OK. It doesn't mean anything in the long run.


    Is it that Christian's don't tolerate other beliefs, or that large groups of people don't tolerate other large groups of people and by human nature go looking for obvious points of difference to justify their intolerance.

    I'd argue that the "Christian" part of anyone who follows Christ is very tolerant of others. The part of us that we're always striving to improve on can be intolerant at times though.


    There are plenty of GOP members who aren't even christians, so this can't possibly be true. And there are plenty of things that the GOP does that have nothing to do at all with religious beliefs, or faith in any way.

    Perhaps your perception is colored by your political leanings, and the fact that in general, the GOP is more willing to protect religious interests than the Democrat party?

    I mean, have you honestly never seen the GOP do something that doesn't involve religious beliefs? I have a hard time believing that. If so though, you may have a paranoia about religion.
     
  24. steve knight thread starter macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #24
    that's a good attitude about live and let live. but it is not the dominant

    christian belief. many think it is their job to convert everyone and their dog.

    So far I have not seen religion getting attacked. I see Christians trying to force their beliefs on others and when they can't the feel attacked. The whole abortion thing the GOP wants to eliminate. if you believe in it or not it is not you choice to choose what someone else does. It's not my choice to say what someone else chooses. but the GOP will try to stamp it out and they will kill many things in their zeal to stop it. reminds me of the lady saw a snake pored gas on it and burned it it went under her house and burned it down. In their fight to kill abortion they have put many woman at risk for lack of medical care that has nothing to do with abortion. gay marriage will have no effect on anyone's marriage but it is something the GOP and conservative christens feel it is their duty to force on others.
    Not providing health care of birth control or equal pay to woman. it is not right for an employer to force their beliefs on their employee's. The employer should not be able to control someone elses health.
    But Christians think it is perfectly ok for force their morals on others but if Someone denied a christian say health care because they are christian or fired them because of that. All hell would break loose.
    The only way to be a good person is to actually be a good person. no amount of faith will make a person a good person only actions do that.

    I am sure Some GOP's do something that does not only help the Christians who by the way are about 80% of the population. But I only see what they do on the news and it has never been good. forget the GOP trying to make a state religion in NC?
    it may sound cool religious freedom in school but kids can already pray if they want. But to pray over the intercom or at games is not going to help people who are not christian. it is going to isolate anyone not in the christian pack. Kids have a hard enough time fitting in at school to throw religion in there too is not going to be good. Christians tend to think they have the only true beliefs and tend to want to spread that message. no one needs that in school.
     
  25. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #25
    Why are you arguing with this troll? It is obvious he doesn't listen to logic and thinks "all christians want to convert me!!"

    News flash, several MR members are Christians (me included), yet we don't act like what you described. I find the law you reported to be protective to all religions, not just Christians. A group of Muslim students can now pay at the correct time without having to feel prejudice from teachers.

    I also don't see anything about "Chrisitians shoving Christianity down your throat" anywhere in the article. You are giving it too much of a stretch, to the point which makes you a true anti-Christian bigot.

    Now, this is my last post in this thread, as you seem to not understand logic or reason. Try to understand an article next time you post about it. Also, this thread (its entirety) has been reported as trollish in nature since you give no real argument, but bigoted and paranoia based remarks.
     
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