Missouri Man Arrested For Refusing To Leave His Husband’s Hospital Bedside

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #1
    This is infuriating. I wonder how often things like this happen. This is the original article with the follow up quoted below. If you don't support marriage equality, I can't see how you don't after reading this.

    What Actually Happened To That Same-Sex Couple In The Missouri Hospital


     
  2. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #2
    This is definitely a case I'd advocate suing for police brutality and public embarrassment, let alone suing the hospital too.
     
  3. Moyank24, Apr 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2013

    Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #3
    While I was never arrested, I have experienced discrimination with regard to visiting my girlfriend in the hospital - on multiple occassions. After the first time I wasn't allowed in ICU, we started carrying our wills and POA's in the car just so it would never happen again.

    Like the gentleman in the OP, there were a few times where they refused to even let me show them the POA. It's the most frustrating, helpless, heartbreaking feeling. I can understand how you can reach a point where you get so irate that the police may need to become involved. My worst fear was that she would pass away while I was trying to fight my way in there. Luckily, that didn't happen - but it was a conscious thought whenever she was in the hospital.

    I know the time is coming when things like this won't be allowed to happen, but as the OP said, it's infuriating that it's happening right now.
     
  4. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #4
    Often POA are ignored by the legal and medical profession because they are too easy to forge and because people's relationships change. Also, they have a hard time confirming that the POA document one has is the latest one. We had my father's POA before he died and hardly anybody recognized it (he lived in VA). It caused no end of problems.... The government should find a way of making such documents legally binding across the whole country.
     
  5. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    What I don't get is why if the patient wants someone with him the hospital/police was prohibiting it.

    Who cares about legal documents. If I want to be with a girlfriend / friend when I'm at the hospital being treated I should we allowed.

    Sadly, sometimes an excess of laws only bring problems.
     
  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    You are during normal visiting hours - this is for "special" visitors who are allowed outside those hours and that is usually heavily restricted to stop causing issues for other patients.
     
  7. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #7
    1) EMS should have transported him to the closest hospital
    2) When he arrives, did the husband have the POA forms?
    3) There sounds like there was definite attempts on the patient's family to usurp the POA.
    4) The emotion of the situation caused both the husband and the family to escalate the tensions.
    5) The hospital staff seemed to do little to diffuse or understand the situation.
    6) While you need to comply with the police, their subsequent actions were thuggish and homophobic.

    I hope the ACLU and federal officials ream the hospital and police a new one. And the patient needs a restraining order against his family.
     
  8. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    I agree. But shouldn't it be more in the way of: "if you make noise or behave badly you are out"?

    There's always the need to apply common sense in these situations. Maybe saying any friend can stay is out of the way. But anyone who I call my partner (legally or not), should be allowed. Normally your husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend won't make noise or become a nuisance for other patients or hospital staff.
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #9
    I kinda agree, but to play devils advocate should your two-week old girlfriend really be allowed to stay? Your family should have a say too IMO.

    It is a hard problem in general - however given they were married in this case the hospital should have done the right thing - regardless of whether technically their marriage grants hospital visitation rights or not.
     
  10. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    I must also say, I kinda agree with you.

    Common sense should be able to sort this "problems" out. But, as Voltaire said, common sense is not so common.
     
  11. pdjudd macrumors 601

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    #11
    Umm, that is not possible. Everybody pretty much pays taxes every time you purchase something for example. Heck, its pretty much impossible to not pay taxes in some respect unless you are homeless, unemployed, and never buy anything.

    Income tax is not the sole form of taxes in the US.
     
  12. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #12
    Nice completely baseless and off-topic personal attack.


    I don't even know what the rest of the jibberish in your post was trying to say, but I'll elaborate on my original post. The police's job is to protect and serve, not to go on a power-trip and arrest people. Arrest should be the last resort, not the first course of action.

    This is a man who was clearly emotionally distraught because he was being denied visitation to an immediate family member who was sick and in the hospital against the will of his husband, the man he was trying to see. How would you feel if that was you in that situation? I'm guessing most people in wouldn't be in their calmest state if that were happening.

    The police should have done all they could to diffuse and rectify the situation properly and not gone on a power trip against the wishes of the man who was in the hospital. This was an egregious abuse of power by all parties involved.
     
  13. Squadleader macrumors regular

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    #13
    They did defuse...They arrested the douche who was causing a scene in a HOSPITAL...Its not a power trip, it is getting the call completed and getting to the next one...The arrest assures they wont have to come back and waste more time with someone acting like a d*ck...Calling the police should have been hospital security's last resort...Put your meaningless anger where it belongs....or do a ride along before commenting about something you know absolutely know nothing about...Yea, I know, tells us how many cops your related to or know...You know jack...
     
  14. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

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    #14
    Seems to me like they arrested the husband, not the security officer who was preventing him from staying by his husband's side.
     
  15. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #15
    The guy was causing a scene because he was being denied visitation to his HUSBAND when he had the legal paperwork proving that he was next of kin and had the right to make any medical decisions for his husband.

    The only people being dicks here were the hospital staff for denying him visitation even though he had the legal right to see his husband and the papers to prove it and the cops for not realizing this and arresting the guy for no legitimate reason and being absolutely ****ing clueless.

    Seems like you should take your own advice.

    You know what happens when you ASSUME? :rolleyes:
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #16
    If someone has run over my child in their car and I'm getting angry about it, it isn't reasonable to arrest me.
     
  17. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #17
    The hospital has a right to determine what is best for their patients. They asked the man to leave, and he refused. They called the cops, I'm sure initially asked him to leave. Again, the man refused to comply. So the cops arrested him.

    While I sympathize with the man wanting to stay with his husband, he doesn't have the right to ignore the hospital staff and police and do whatever he wants to.
     
  18. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #18
    While you are right that a hospital has the right to ask a visitor to leave...if there is a reason. Something like visiting hours are over, or the patient is going to be tested or examined.

    The question for me here is whether the visitor (husband) would have been asked to leave if he was the husband of the patient in a heterosexual couple. I have no evidence that that was the case, just wondering.

    The trouble started after he was asked to leave, so the question of whether the hospital staff's decision was influenced by, or a direct result of, that fact that it was a gay couple.

    As I don't know what was in the hospital staff member's mind so this is admittedly, just conjecture on my part...
     
  19. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #19
    And if that determination is based on homophobia? Or the homophobia of family members who don't have the authority to make decisions on the patient's behalf?

    I never condone violence, and obviously the husband paid the price for his response, but I challenge you to walk out of a hospital calmly after they refuse you the ability to see your wife.
     
  20. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #20
    It's reasonable if it becomes apparent that you're a threat to yourself or others. Police officers can arrest someone for "disturbing the peace" which gives them fairly wide discretion—this can be good or bad depending on the officer and department.

    And, frankly, if someone ran over my kid, the police should arrest me for being disruptive or they'll be arresting me for assault later.


    I have mixed feelings about this. To a point, if someone is fighting with hospital employees and creating a situation that makes care difficult for the patient, as well as other patients, hospital staff and security have a right to remove that person.
    However, its clear that hospital employees were ignoring the POA (and this could include ignoring advanced directives), which is a huge ethical lapse.

    The smart thing was for this man to retreat from the room and march down to the facility's lawyer. The hospital's lawyer can make a few calls and get this kind of thing fixed in a way that getting hauled out by police officers will not.

    I understand the emotion, but the smart play isn't to get into a fight with the local flatfoots.

    One other thing that bothers me about this situation is how police officers seem increasingly unable to de-escalate such a situation. An arrest is a sign of failure in this case, too much force and too little empathy.

    And, I say this with some experience working with police officers and going to crime scenes.
     
  21. MuddyPaws1 macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Yep. But this HAS to be discrimination right?
     
  22. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #22
    So, absolutely no discrimination occurred? From the time he arrived until the time he was arrested?

    As I said earlier, I challenge you to act calmly after being told you can't stay with your wife if she was hospitalized.

    Did he deserve to be arrested? Maybe. But it shouldn't have escalated to that point. The hospital staff could have and should have handled the situation differently.

    And as a previous poster stated, the police officers should have also been able to diffuse the situation without having to initiate contact and break his wrist. And if they can't, maybe they should have different jobs.
     
  23. MuddyPaws1 macrumors 6502

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    #23
    We don't know what happened. We weren't there.

    Based on the story, sounds like he was arguing with the brother. Causing a disruption, then was asked to leave.

    Are you naive enough to think that every situation or every irate person can be calmed down easily?

    You resist an officer, you pay the price. Pretty simple. Do you REALLY think that the officer's first response was to subdue the guy? Really?
     
  24. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #24
    Are you naive enough to think that things like this don't happen every day? I know it's uncomfortable to talk about, and to think about - but discrimination happens. And it happens way too much. So, instead of trying to justify the behavior of professionals who should know better why don't you try putting yourself in the shoes of someone who was told to leave a place he had every right to be.
     
  25. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    This is a point worth remembering.


    Every is a pretty big circle. Sure, not every person can be calmed down, but this isn't some dude jacked up after a five-day meth bender, this is a man terrified of losing his effective spouse.

    Well no, but I've seen officers go from 0-60 far faster than they should and generally the methods to subdue someone don't generally break their wrist.

    The officers may not have realized what they were walking into and so they reacted with more force than was necessary, or they just didn't like the guy, or he was acting crazy and tried to fight.

    The important question that rdowns brought up has been largely ignored, which is would the situation been different had Allen or Roger Gorley been female? Would police have tackled a distraught Rose?

    This is one of those situations that, even from a distance, we should be able to call a cluster****. The hospital, Gorley, the family, and the police all took a terrible situation and worsened it.
     

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