MIT professor debunks evidence of source of sarin gas attack


Chew Toy McCoy

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 13, 2016
202
2,847
Dr. Mike Savage covered this a week ago.
Don't know who that is. No shortage of fact seeking government haters out there right now…except on the mainstream media, and none from either side on military action. Soon as somebody attempts it they are ignored or shut down.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
When the attack was initially reported I posted that it could be propaganda. But as the days wore on, more and more sources seemed to corroborate it's authenticity, and I began to believe my initial suspicions were a product of my cynicism and paranoia.

But I'm not about to jump back on the propaganda bandwagon just because some MIT professor does an interview for Russian Television (no agenda there). I'm afraid I'm going into full mistrust mode. I'll wait for some disinterested, trustworthy bodies to conduct a few thorough investigations, and see what they come up with.

Until that happens ... I trust no one.
 

Zenithal

macrumors G3
Sep 10, 2009
9,046
10,121
The only shortage is in truth. I believe Savage is yet another talk show host.
Correct. He has a degree in biology, botany, anthropology an a Ph.d in nutritional ethnomedicine (think ayurvedic, otherwise known as useless). Theodore Postol, the professor he mentions, has an undergrad in physics and a Ph.d in nuclear engineering. Though even I'm at a loss as to how that makes him an expert on biological weapons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: juanm

juanm

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2006
1,565
2,880
Fury 161
Correct. He has a degree in biology, botany, anthropology an a Ph.d in nutritional ethnomedicine (think ayurvedic, otherwise known as useless). Theodore Postol, the professor he mentions, has an undergrad in physics and a Ph.d in nuclear engineering. Though even I'm at a loss as to how that makes him an expert on biological weapons.
But, but,... MIT!
[doublepost=1492418978][/doublepost]
To have believed Assad to be at fault, before any investigation, required blind patriotism, or blind hatred, in the first place. Am more surprised this is becoming public knowledge.
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/14/did-al-qaeda-fool-the-white-house-again/
Or, you know, just looking at his record. He's been barrel bombing civilians for years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMacHack

sorcery

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2016
179
363
Ring of Fire
This may be true. Or not. Inside Syria, according to a Syrian friend, now resident in Dubai, but with his parents still in Damascus, the Syrian forces have the reputation of protecting civilians, while being harsh on terrorists, rebels and dissidents. Outside Syria our propaganda machine says otherwise. But I no longer know who to believe. Certainly not western governments or their MSM pets. Perhaps no-one tells the truth.
Re targeting : https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/17/through-the-war-on-terror-looking-glass/
 
Last edited:

Chew Toy McCoy

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 13, 2016
202
2,847
A recent HBO Syria documentary seemed to lean heavily on Assad killing a lot of civilians. I was kind of surprised, but I don’t know if HBO has an agenda on this.

Whenever there is a debate on the news on something as serious as war, poverty, or healthcare I think they should put a little info graphic under each pendant showing who and what benefits from their viewpoint.
 

jerwin

macrumors 68020
Jun 13, 2015
2,460
4,452
Whenever there is a debate on the news on something as serious as war, poverty, or healthcare I think they should put a little info graphic under each pendant showing who and what benefits from their viewpoint.
who is this "they" you speak of?
[doublepost=1492447858][/doublepost]
reputation of protecting civilians, while being harsh on terrorists, rebels and dissidents.
Submit to our unjust rule, or we'll change your status from "civilian" to "dissident."
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,255
Scotland
Ok so let us review:

  1. Syria is not Iraq. However, Iraq did have WMD and used them ahginst the Kurds. They were in technical violation of UN resolutions by failing to destroy all of them (not manufacturing new ones as the US and others claimed).
  2. Syria did have WMD, the nature of which were verified. Supposedly Syria handed all of these WMD over for destruction, but we cannot be certain.
  3. Sure it is possible that the apparent attack was staged, or that it was actually a form of poisoning not associated with weapons. However, imagining there is some sort of Western conspiracy to create this situation really falls foul of Occum's Razor. The simplest explanation is that Assad did this in revenge for the attack on Damascus.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
14,010
Ok so let us review:

  1. Syria is not Iraq. However, Iraq did have WMD and used them ahginst the Kurds. They were in technical violation of UN resolutions by failing to destroy all of them (not manufacturing new ones as the US and others claimed).
  2. Syria did have WMD, the nature of which were verified. Supposedly Syria handed all of these WMD over for destruction, but we cannot be certain.
  3. Sure it is possible that the apparent attack was staged, or that it was actually a form of poisoning not associated with weapons. However, imagining there is some sort of Western conspiracy to create this situation really falls foul of Occum's Razor. The simplest explanation is that Assad did this in revenge for the attack on Damascus.
Occum's Razor should never be applied in any geopolitical shindig given the propaganda efforts from all sides, of which in Syria there are least a dozen....
 

JayMysterio

macrumors 6502a
Apr 24, 2010
668
12,162
Rock Ridge, California
A recent HBO Syria documentary seemed to lean heavily on Assad killing a lot of civilians. I was kind of surprised, but I don’t know if HBO has an agenda on this.

Whenever there is a debate on the news on something as serious as war, poverty, or healthcare I think they should put a little info graphic under each pendant showing who and what benefits from their viewpoint.
I think one would be more surprised if a documentary about Syria was made, and Assad's killing of civilians was NOT included. It's kind of his thing [ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/islamic-state-has-killed-many-syrians-but-assads-forces-have-killed-even-more/2015/09/05/b8150d0c-4d85-11e5-80c2-106ea7fb80d4_story.html?utm_term=.de8dff482071 ], and it's made him the flashpoint he is.

Also considering the one's involved in the making, someone who is involved in Syria, that whole 'killing a lot of civilians' thing was bound to come up.

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/12/519925232/cries-from-syria-documentary-lays-bare-the-conflicts-gruesome-realities

The war in Syria has stretched six years and claimed the lives of an estimated 400,000 Syrians. But often forgotten is the story of how it all started with a severe crackdown by President Bashar al-Assad in retaliation for peaceful protests against the torture and killing of a group of young boys who were detained for spraying graffiti on a wall in support of the Arab Spring. "Cries From Syria" is a new documentary out tomorrow on HBO that aims to tell the story of the country's descent into chaos.

Drawing from hundreds of hours of footage from digital cameras and cellphones, "Cries From Syria" paints a tragic and gruesome portrait of the Syrian conflict by the American director of the acclaimed film "Winter On Fire," a documentary about the conflict in Ukraine. To hear more about "Cries From Syria," I'm joined by its director, Evgeny Afineevsky, and one of the film's main subjects, Syrian journalist Kholoud Helmi. Evgeny and Kholoud, thank you so much for speaking with us.
One would be able to argue if a focus wasn't put on Assad, that the doc would have an agenda as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shinji

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,255
Scotland
Occum's Razor should never be applied in any geopolitical shindig given the propaganda efforts from all sides, of which in Syria there are least a dozen....
It should, but appropriate caution should be used in the face of lack of evidence. I think Trump should have waited for an investigation, or at lest until there was evidence another attack was being prepared. The sabre-rattling, of course, could have gone on before that as a warning.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
14,010
It should, but appropriate caution should be used in the face of lack of evidence. I think Trump should have waited for an investigation, or at lest until there was evidence another attack was being prepared. The sabre-rattling, of course, could have gone on before that as a warning.
Well yea, getting the results of an actual investigation would maybe make this act of aggression a bit less of a war crime?

Occam's Razor being applied in any situation where intelligence agencies are working (on all sides) is foolish, at best.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,255
Scotland
The problem with not applying Occam's Razor is that you end up with 'narratives' like 9/11 was a false-flag operation.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
14,010
The problem with not applying Occam's Razor is that you end up with 'narratives' like 9/11 was a false-flag operation.
Occam's razor, where no evidence is present, will give you the same end result.

All applying it in this instance devolves into is "Grunt, Assad evil, grunt, clearly he did this attack, grunt, can't wait for evidence and will instead rely on years of conflicting narratives".
 

ibookg409

Suspended
Apr 20, 2016
612
7,356
Portsmouth, NH
Occam's razor, where no evidence is present, will give you the same end result.

All applying it in this instance devolves into is "Grunt, Assad evil, grunt, clearly he did this attack, grunt, can't wait for evidence and will instead rely on years of conflicting narratives".
I think the fact that the first responders were wearing like zero protective gear tells you in wasn't sarin gas. This whole situation stinks to high heaven.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
14,010
I think the fact that the first responders were wearing like zero protective gear tells you in wasn't sarin gas. This whole situation stinks to high heaven.
Exactly, which isn't to say the videos from the scene point to any particular narrative, but CERTAINLY pokes a big ****ing hole in the one our leaders keep proclaiming currently.
 

shinji

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2007
1,306
1,497
I'm against escalating the US role in Syria, but it isn't hard to believe that Assad really did use Sarin. Lots of the arguments some are using to claim holes in the official story have been debunked, too http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/syria-gas-attack-false-flag_uk_58e5e0f6e4b06a4cb30f2fe1

As for the first responders wearing inadequate gear:

Additionally, according to a report in The New York Times, a number of rescuers later fell ill from exposure to the toxin, although this would have been at lower levels of concentration than that which killed the victims of the initial air raid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thomas Veil