Mitch vs Chuck: Speeches after the Healthcare Bill Vote

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by samcraig, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. samcraig, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017

    samcraig macrumors P6

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    #1
    Both speeches are very telling.

    Mitch's is full of blame and putting the onus on the Democrats to come up with a solution. His talk of the other side "celebrating" is something his party did and was hoping to do, I am sure. Mitch's speech keeps isolation alive.

    I also found it interesting (semantically) that Mitch talks about voting to keep the promise of Repeal and Replace. However this is failed logic. This implies that the only thing that matters is the VOTE, not the CONTENT.

    Chuck's speech is in alignment with McCain's from the other day. It's about trying to work together.

    This video has both...

     
  2. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #2
    McConnell's face and reaction were priceless. Maybe if they actually came up with a bill that wasn't just more tax-breaks for their donators, they'd get some bipartisan support. Nobody denies Obamacare can be improved on.
     
  3. samcraig thread starter macrumors P6

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    #3
    He really looked like he was getting ready to cry.
     
  4. Zwopple macrumors regular

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    #4
    It's so ripe how McConnell blamed the Democrats for blocking it while he didn't even invite a single one of them to help craft the bill or allow any Democratic amendments.

    Not to mention his whole tenure as the GOP's leader in the Senate has been nothing but "Obstruct obstruct obstruct"
     
  5. samcraig thread starter macrumors P6

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    #5
    There's a good section (Starts at 10:24) in here of how hypocritical Mitch is:

     
  6. jeyf macrumors 6502

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    #6
    it may seriously hurt some citizens needing health care assistance but i hope they create a junk Trump Care situation so bad it will be the scourge of a generation. That way in a better political situation a proper fix can be made.
    because
    Medicare; when they initially created it, took several iteration till they got it functional.

    either way the government will spend your tax dollar and "need" more. better they spend it on your grand mother than some war in a far off corner of the globe.
     
  7. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #7
    The icing on our cake: Trump is out to lunch, out of touch, and kidding himself if he thinks as the leader of the country he can dodge responsibility for the state of Obamacare. Besides not having any heart felt desire to make healthcare work for the public, he just wants a win, but he has not done jack to sell his vision, nor pressure the Congress other than berate. Maybe if he had a vision, that would help. Whatever they produce it would be difficult to call it Trumpcare because he is so disconnected. The interesting think, is at one point he cajoled the Congress to be more generous, but then let it drop and is now mad at those Representatives who did not cooperate to pass any POS bill, anything for a win, any win no matter how big a turd they squirt out. In any sense of a positive regard, he is a completely ineffectual leader.

    Ok, so besides Supreme Dummkoph, the GOP join him as the epitome of failures, politicians so wrapped up in their ideologies, unable to compromise, nor be pragmatic about the reality of health care and how it and they relate to their base. They would rather watch the healthcare ship sink, then compromise with a solution they may not like, but works for the public.

    Trump Says Health Care Bill Failure ‘Let the American People Down’
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    What will happen now is, Trump and McConnell will try to make the Democrats own the ACA, along with its problem areas.

    And that's fine.

    Because now the Democrats need to come up with a plan. Bernie Sanders mentioned reintroducing the public option last night, which is fine with me.

    But if the Democrats offer something that strengthens the ACA instead of weakening it (like the Republicans), and the GOP rejects it, it will be on the GOP. Don't forget, a clear majority of the public approves of the ACA. Any GOP action or inaction to harm it, and they will get blamed.

    What's interesting is that it's getting close to the time when insurance companies have to decide on the contents of their plans and where to offer them. They have to start putting stuff up on the exchanges in October. So the Democrats need to announce a plan soon. Even if the Republicans $#!+-can it, the people will know it was the Democrats who tried to save the ACA, not sabotage it.
     
  9. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #9
    So weird in early part of McConnell speech, his lashing out at the Dems because three senators in his own party took down the bill that just failed to pass.
     
  10. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #10
    I agree with you, this is a golden opportunity for the Democrats to step forward and offer their vision of methods to really improve the ACA, sell this to the public or they are failures too.
     
  11. samcraig thread starter macrumors P6

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    #11
    I still think it's "sad" that he thinks people should vote just to keep their promise to the voters as if the voters don't care about what's actually in the bill. The promise was about finding something better - not just voting to repeal/replace.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 28, 2017 ---
    They need to - and it would help them in mid-terms too..
     
  12. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #12
    Sad and pathetic the Republican leadership reaction to their own failure.
     
  13. samcraig thread starter macrumors P6

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    #13
    Someone tell Donny that he only needed 51 last night. Couldn't get that!

    Screen Shot 2017-07-28 at 9.49.06 AM.png
     
  14. Huntn, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    The problem with the bankrupt GOP is they have been talking about repealing Obamacare for 7 years, but have not spent equal time seriously considering what their base wants, surprise surprise healthcare that works for average citizens. This is because the leadership was disconnected from their base, so obsessed with their vision of who deserves wealth and benefits, it all fell apart as the dim bulbs in their base finally brightened up and realized their GOP had designs on disenfranchising them from affordable healthcare in combination with funneling the money from healthcare to a big tax cut for the wealthy. :oops:o_O

    Here's the rub that's going to burn the Republicans, everyone wants a real, affordable solution, especially their base not an oh well, we tried failure. Being in control of Congress and the Presidency, they are completely myopic if they think they can dodge responsibility.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 28, 2017 ---
    Lol, 51 makes supreme sense to Supreme Leader, not 60, huh? :oops::oops::oops: My gawd.
     
  15. samcraig thread starter macrumors P6

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    #15
    Someone let Mitch know that this is what celebrating looks like.
    590ba3b21400002000f8b4f4.jpg 590baca41400001f00f8b512.jpg
    --- Post Merged, Jul 28, 2017 ---
    Well - keep in mind.. The healthcare bill (for McConnell and Ryan at least) was never truly about health care reform. It was about tax relief. If the GOP could reduce the deficit by cutting the spending associated with the ACA, they would lower the bar needed to make their next bill, tax reform, "deficit-neutral" which would allow them to pass it in the senate with a simple majority, as opposed to 60 votes. If health care was really their focus, they would have had a serious plan in place a long time ago.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    The irony of those images. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    I think cost is an important aspect. The problem with GOP leadership is their priorities. There is money for healthcare, but ask who the GOP is truly beholding too. It's not their base of average citizens. Dim bulbs, time to brighten up! ;)
     
  17. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #17
    Our democracy is an illusion and disgrace. I feel bad for the voters who think their vote is making a difference where it really matters. It is not.
     
  18. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #18
    I don't know how you can say that in this case. Americans by a huge majority did not want ACA repealed, they wanted it fixed, and they did not like the fixes that were proposed. Any of them.

    So the voters had moved past ideology to content of legislation. But, McConnell and Ryan were holding their legislators to the party line they've had for seven years, i.e. we are going to kill this thing or maim it so it dies. And they had a 2-body majority and figured they could ram it through both houses.

    So when push came to shove, three Senators of that majority party, two of whom were standing up for their constituents in seeing ill effects coming down the road from the final bill, said no, this is not good for people who need affordable health care coverage.

    Those two U.S. Senators, Murkowski and Collins, spoke for plenty other Americans who need that too but whose reps were taking the party line in order to get that tax cut at the end of the health care rainbow the Senate had painted.

    The third no voter, Senator McCain, understood where the country was coming from --and let's face it a lot of that was about 13 white guys in a room writing that bill-- and voted against it because he wanted the Senate to reboot and take up a bill in "regular order", the more traditional open and potentially bipartisan legislative process.

    McConnell has acceded now (never mind his manner and some of the content of his remarks) in saying to Schumer "OK so let's see what you guys have in mind."

    I don't see how any of that adds up to our votes not meaning something. Our "votes" keep happening after the election in terms of opinion expressed to our legislators. In this case, the country and K street were pretty much aligned on opposition to the House and Senate's party line view of the bill. The bill per se was not what Americans wanted, regarding COVERAGE, regardless of what party they voted for when electing their representatives.

    Now it's time to put costs on the table too. Schumer might have to face losing some political donations...
     
  19. dogslobber macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    #19
    I must confess I don't know why we need 51 and 60 other times. It is confusing so will be confusing to Trump too.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 28, 2017 ---
    This. They want the part of the existing bill fixed. Not a complete replacement but tweak the existing ACA law. Why is this so hard for the Republican Party to work from?
    Again, this. These two so called majority leaders are not leaders at all. They're the real problem in that they're roadblocks to cross-party convergence. Forcing party lines to be voted for via threats is just plain stupid. It's time for the Republican Party to bring in moderates and replacing McConnell with Susan Collins would be a great first start. I'm sure there are moderates in the Republican House who are not as slithery as Ryan is.
     
  20. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #20
    As far as Trump and his remark about 60 vs 51 votes, oy. He might have been thinking of the situation where when House or Senate tries to reconcile budget items and some language in the bill or an amendment is seen by parliamentarian (or a partisan challenge) to represesent not a budget tweak but a policy change. In that case 60 votes are generally required on Senate side unless it's a minor language change and both parties and parliamentarian agree not to challenge it.

    But lol for me to think Trump really gets that far out in the weeds of legislation is ludicrous... although there was one vote that did require 60 to override the parliamentarian where indeed they only racked up 43. And that was to present a more complex bill that had some adjustments in it trying to reel in more support from GOP holdouts. Right there it was clear to a lot of Senators probably, and certainly to McCain, that getting to 51 on something simpler was not going to happen either. That to me was why he voted to open debate on the simple repeal, to force getting on with the rest of the fails and so to where we are now, needing a regular order process with input from both sides, committee hearings etc.
     
  21. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #21
    It’s an illusion. We should be able vote directly on what we want for healthcare, war, and who gets bailed out in a crisis. The biggest things that impact us as a country we have no say in other than possibly voting in the lesser corporate or military shill. At best we get some kind of gray ideological victory or loss peppered with back door deals we probably aren't aware of.
     
  22. samcraig thread starter macrumors P6

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  23. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #23
    The Dems will make their proposals and reliably the GOP will balk at costs. Why can't the well to do minority of their base get a break, can't you see they are suffering? Besides helping low income families with their medical expenses is anathema to proper conservative thinking. :oops:
     
  24. dogslobber macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    #24
    Threats and intimidation of the Alaska senator have me worried. It used to be you negotiated with your fellow senators but now this Republican administration stoops to this utterly despicable position. I have nothing good to say about Trump other than he will be gone one day sooner than yesterday. I hope the country is strong enough to airbrush his existence from political history.
     
  25. noekozz macrumors 6502a

    noekozz

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    #25
    This is the type of tactic that he uses to run his businesses, and that's the problem with trying to run the country like a business, and you're seeing it play out in front of you. No one should be surprised by now, that's what his base loves and that's why they voted for him. Now the WH has turned into the best reality sitcom on TV.
     

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