Mitt Romney's Tax Plan

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #1
    The Tax Policy Center at the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution has crunched the numbers.

    What would this mean for you?

    If you earn less than $40,000, your taxes would rise. But...

    Fair and balanced are the words that come to mind.
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  3. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    Brilliant. The rich get richer and the hell with the rest of us. They don't even bother to hide it anymore.
     
  5. MorphingDragon, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012

    MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #5
    My Family's income and assets put us in the top 2% bracket in New Zealand. Such a tax plan wouldn't even let us into the benefits (Assuming just a straight currency conversion). The jump between 1% and 2% is immense. CEOs earn more than the Law Firm I work at makes.

    Its sad, we're supposed to be rich yet my immediate family is in their knees in debt and we certainly don't feel rich. Hate to think what the L.Q. is going through.
     
  6. Designer Dale macrumors 68040

    Designer Dale

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    A few nights ago I sat down and went through all of the Republican candidates web sites to see their economic and social plans. Romney's plan was no changes to the tax structure for the majority of Americans and to reduce corporate tax rate to 25% max. The only word I could think of at the moment was "Stupid!".

    Dale
     
  7. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #7
    Santorum's plan is no better.

    Like Romney, he'd rather give rich folks a tax break than have his numbers add up.
     
  8. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #8
    The reason none of you get it is because you think raising taxes increases revenue to the government. It doesn't, and even Kennedy understood that...

    Cut taxes. Grow the private sector. Reduce government spending by 50% and we will start down a path to recovery.

    Increase taxes. Grow government jobs. Increase government spending and we WILL bankrupt the country.
     
  9. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #9
    thewitt is one smart poster on this forum. Hooray for the enlightened!
     
  10. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #10
    Cut cut cut cut

    Romney '12. He will get my vote, no question. He's not a neocon and he's a brilliant business-man. We could use someone who spent their life dismantling wasteful programs and focusing resources on growth opportunities. His opponents will look at his private equity background as a negative. I think it's his largest positive.
     
  11. leekohler, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012

    leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    You've got to be kidding. This is more of the crap that got us into this mess in the first place. And don't fool yourself, Romney is a neocon. He signed the marriage pledge. How sad that you would fall for this and put your fellow man's rights at risk.


    My god, it's like the Reagan nightmare revisited. This is borderline insanity- keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Unreal. Taxes are at their lowest in decades. That has not produced private sector growth. It's been just the opposite.
     
  12. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #12
    still waiting for the Bush tax cuts to trickle down...
     
  13. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #13
    I'm still waiting for Reagan's trickle down to affect me !
     
  14. GfPQqmcRKUvP, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012

    GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #14
    Private equity investing got us into this crap? Be descriptive.

    Yeah, but he was clearly pandering to get votes. That's the only way to fool neocons. He wavered on it in Massachusetts, and he would lose the nomination if he endorsed it. You know I'm all for same-sex rights and marriage, but if Obama can't even support it for fearing of losing votes, how do you think it would turn out if a republican did? I'd much rather have him than Bachmann or Santorum. I disagree that cutting taxes got us to this point. To me, every dollar of tax collected need to be justified, not every dollar cut. Cut the military funding, cut entitlements (all of them), and cut pretty much everything else that isn't infrastructure/police/fire. I want one of the lowest tax rates in the world again, which we used to have. We're near the top now. The government has its hand in too many things.

    http://taxfoundation.org/files/sr195.pdf

    Put simply, I think the government is a money wasting machine, and who better to cut down on the waste and return money to shareholders (the American people) than the genius founder of Bain Capital. I really think he'd be an outstanding President.
     
  15. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #15
    Any day now!:D You just gotta believe in the power of voodoo!
     
  16. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #16
    Because that's working so well for China's People. :rolleyes:
     
  17. leekohler, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012

    leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    My god! While I agree with you about cutting spending, you can't be serious when you say that cutting taxes right now is the answer, especially on the people who need it least, and raising them on people who need it the most. We've done that for them for years and we have nothing to show for it except for the wealthy getting richer. Where are the jobs, Andy? Where is the benefit for the middle class? You seriously think this is a good idea? Do you not realize that taxing the top bracket is money that goes right back into the economy?

    Quite honestly, I would trust the government more with my money than the private sector. The private sector is outsourcing jobs and sheltering money. They have shown they have no interest in investing in the US. We have been giving them what they want for almost 30 years! Look where we are. We've gotten nothing but empty promises. Tell you what, you reduce taxes on small business, I'll be all for it. But we start raising taxes on companies who outsource.

    I just saw a huge layoff at my company today (more outsourcing, yes, I'm safe)- 30 people. Why? They outsourced even more. Fortunately, I'm client facing, so I was OK. But the more this happens, the more we weaken our country. I'm quite frankly horrified by the shortsightedness we display as a nation.
     
  18. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #18
    I could say some things which would rightly make them confused.
     
  19. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    OK, can you support that? I have yet to see legitimate data that shows that cutting taxes improves economic conditions or that raising them makes things worse. As far as I can tell, it is all pandering bluster and cocktail-napkin economic theory. Make us not laugh at Laffer, please.
     
  20. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    Then lower corporate taxes a lot, let companies repatriate foreign earnings, and wait to cut personal taxes until we've dug ourselves out of this hole a little bit. A hole that was created, I might add, by artificially depressed interest rates and putting home ownership on a pedestal legislatively.

    The world is generally in the crapper, but I wasn't the only person coming out of school who received multiple job offers. You want to be like Spain? Look at their unemployment and tell me if you think we should keep raising taxes and stifling innovation.

    I don't think that's a proper justification for taking a higher percentage of someone's money. People love to say that the top earners don't think about taxes when making economic decisions. That's horse****, especially for the majority of the rich who make their money through salaries and self-employment. Their decision is to kill themselves that extra hour or two of American productivity and work ethic or achieve a better work-personal life balance. Guess which way that scale gets tipped when you start eroding the value of that extra hour or two...

    By all means, dump all your money in treasuries. I certainly wouldn't do that.

    No U.S. company wants to be thought of as evil. There's a reason they're outsourcing. And secondly, sheltering money? Apple and Google and thousands of other companies have been asking the government for years to let them repatriate their money back into America. But no, our greedy government wants a huge cut of profits made internationally in international factories staffed by international workers. You want the private sector to start treating America better? It starts at Washington D.C.

    We've taxed them more than ever. Look at the PDF I linked to.

    You think that will help? They'll leave eventually, just like they've been doing in California. Thank the FSM that it's 75 degrees and sunny throughout January or no one would be here.
     
  21. leekohler, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012

    leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    There isn't any such data. It's a farce.

    ----------

    Andy- bottom line. We have been told for decades that if we cut taxes on the rich, they will create jobs. We cut their taxes steadily over the last three or four decades. Where are the jobs?

    And we've been taxing the rich more than ever? Really? Please stop it. You're lying at this point. Read my link.

    And please stop it with the hard work thing. Lots of people work hard and many extra hours just to keep their jobs. Americans work more hours with less vacation time than almost any other country. You accusing Americans of being lazy is quite simply rude.

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/07/tax-rates-deviations-from-average/
     
  22. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #22
    I added a blurb about jobs to my post.

    Posting that link is intellectually dishonest. You and I both know the government never really collected that high marginal rate. Statutory rates are one thing, the actual tax take is another, which is my link (which was corporation specific) differentiated between the two.

    For disclosure's sake, I'm still pessimistic about the American economy and am short the market. It's fun to talk about this stuff, but for now I have to go work. See you all later.
     
  23. leekohler, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012

    leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    No- it was not. That was a graph of the tax rates. At the time, we needed it to fund the war. And of course you're pessimistic about the American economy. It's been destroyed slowly since Reagan.

    Andy- people work longer hours for less in this country and have a lot less vacation time than other developed countries. You cannot claim the American worker is lazy. We have had increased productivity for years, with little reward. The middle class is struggling while the rich get richer. How you can justify that is beyond my understanding.

    Oh, and believe it or not, I have a job too. I work at that job 50 hours a week. But I realize that you think you're the only one who works. After all, you're the only one who matters.
     
  24. hulugu, Jan 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012

    hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #24
    Well, it depends on what's the most significant problem. The government currently runs a huge deficit that cannot be achieved through cuts alone, so either we accept that deficit or we raise taxes.

    While revenues generally have remained steady despite changes in the tax rate, there are lagging effects when the tax rate is changed, meaning that for the short-term, lowering taxes will have little direct affect on the economy, but will harm government's (because we're not just talking about federal, but also state and municipal funding) ability to operate our society. While levels have remained unchanged, we also see that there's also very little direct connection between economic development and tax rates.

    I'm ambivalent about his experience with Bain Capital. On one hand, his experience shows a deft understanding of corporate finance, but the experience also shows his own carelessness about the workers and the companies that he ultimately dismantled. I'm not sure that Bain did anything but line a few pockets.

    Corporate tax rates should be lowered, but at the same time many corporate loopholes and special exemptions should also be eliminated for all but a few specific industries —*and those should be focused on emerging businesses making them competitive in international markets. I also agree with you on repatriating foreign earnings and personal taxes.

    And, lastly, you know my stance on that hole. The government might have broken ground, but corporate greed turned it into the yawning sinkhole we have today.

    I still don't buy this argument. The tax rate is designed so that if you make more money, you make more money. While the last dollar has a higher rate, your inertia doesn't change much.

    Well, California proves that different pressures exist for companies. Why does Google and Apple still occupy Silicon Valley? Why does Microsoft sulk in Redmond, Wa.? If tax rates forced companies to migrate like geese, Silicon Valley should look like Detroit.

    It's not just tax rates, but also where the corporate culture is based, where their workers want to live, and even infrastructure questions.

    I think you're generally right about the importance of tax rates, but that's not the only thing that matters and it cannot be the sole calculation in the development of public policy.


    EDIT: Have you looked at the data from OECD? If I'm reading their data correctly, the US rate is one of the highest, beaten only by Japan. However, Greece's is near the bottom as is Ireland and Italy, which makes me think that corporate tax rate is a factor, but not the sole factor of a country's economic development.
     
  25. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #25
    Sorry, but I am not liking this "repatriate their earning" talk. It smells like a smokescreen. If the US bends over to appease the multinationals, the Cayman Islands will respond in kind and we will end up even worse off than we are now, but racing to the bottom even faster. Pardon me while I go spray some of this on the south pasture.
     

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