More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice”

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, May 15, 2009.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

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    Can anyone tell me whether the "legal under any circumstances" essentially means people who support partial-birth or 3rd trimester abortions? If so, I'd say that is the most staggering statistic I've heard in a while. I had no idea it was that high.

    I'm personally glad to see this shift (however small) in public opinion. Interested in the opinions of the rest of the community on what this shift means (if anything, if statistically valid) and what could be the cause. Gallup's take (above) was intriguing.

    Let's see how long this conversation can remain civil, shall we? Make an effort.
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    I think they should allow a small window to have abortions, after a certain point its pretty irresponsible.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    I'm confused. The only people I'd consider to be "pro-life" would be people who say it should be illegal in all circumstances. That's a pretty small number. Everyone else would allow abortion in some way.
     
  4. redwarrior macrumors 603

    redwarrior

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    #4
    It's my personal opinion that as we become more educated and experienced in the medical field we are realizing and actually "seeing" that a fetus is a person much earlier than we realized.

    We are witnessing infants being sustained and actually living from earlier miscarriages as compared to just a few years ago because of medical science. There is also the ultrasound technology that is showing us a moving being that has been shown to feel pain and respond to stimuli.

    All of this information is available to the general public, and I'm glad that at least some are paying attention.
     
  5. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    The report doesn't say what the term covers and I expect it is open to a lot of opinion and interpretation with the public so in some cases the people answer yes to that part would be for those two cases described above but in others they would be answering yes but if ask directly about the two cases they might answer no. Can't really define anything on that small a detail with the very broad question.


    As the graph above shows there have been blips in the past where opinion has wildly changed for a short period and then come back. At this point it is not really possible to say that this is a shift change or a knee jerk reaction. Something that will only be known in a year or twos time.

    It would've been good if the linked article explained the previous blips so that a comparison between then and the results provided now could be made to try and ascertain if it is similar in nature or a shift.
     
  6. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #6
    People that are against abortion of all kinds, other than perhaps in a mother's -life-in-danger situation would definitely be pro-life.


    I think you're probably exactly right. Kind of a big detail to leave out, don't ya think?


    Agreed. That would have been good information to have. There's something to be said for the simplicity and readability of this report though. Too much important data is drowned out in gigantic reports that no one reads and the important information never reaches the people it should.


    +1
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Really? I would think not. But OK.
     
  8. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #8
    Responding to stimuli doesn't make it a person. There are plenty of organisms in petri dishes that we can get to respond to stimuli. If its developed enough to feel pain and can be extracted and kept alive with technology I don't think it should fit in the window that abortion should be allowed.
     
  9. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    #9
    Why are the "pro-life" (misnomer) numbers so high? What's the justification?
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    Without any further detail, Lee's point is valid: only 23% are unequivocally anti-choice.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    I think most people might agree with that.
     
  12. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #12
    I disagree. Unless you're willing to admit that 22% are unequivocally anti-life.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    22% aren't anti-life. They aren't requiring every pregnant woman to get an abortion, while 23% are forbidding them absolutely for anyone.
     
  14. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #14
    You can disagree as much as you like, but to claim that anyone who would allow a mother to live if childbirth threatened her life is "anti-life" would be ludicrous.
     
  15. gibbz macrumors 68030

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    And this is the key point. Pro-choice people do not condemn every pregnant woman to get an abortion, they simply do not presume to know what is best for the woman. Thus, they leave a choice. Meanwhile, Pro-Life people(at least these 23%) condemn every pregnant woman to carry to term regardless of any circumstances. In this respect, they presume to hold absolute moral authority over all women. Thus they leave no choice.
     
  16. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #16
    What I'd find really interesting would be a study/poll done to compare and contrast how these numbers change after a couple gets pregnant and carries a child through to birth.

    My gut estimate would be that those pro-choice would be cut in half, and those pro-life would double. Any other predictions on that particular idea?

    Has this been done before? Can someone find/post the results if they exist?
     
  17. SLC Flyfishing macrumors 65816

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #17
    I disagree, it's a person from the moment it's conceived. It's genetic material simply won't let it become anything other than a human being.

    I don't see why this is so hard for some to grasp, and it's very easy to set some arbitrary standard for who and what is to be considered human. I've heard people say that unless it can survive on it's own outside the womb it's not a person. Well I've got two small children whom I doubt very much could survive on their own, but who are people in every sense of the word.


    SLC
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #18
    If you could bring yourself to use less loaded and misleading terms, we might have a more constructive discussion.
     
  19. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #19
    And this is the key point. Pro-life people do not condemn every unborn child to the whims of their potentially illogical, illiterate, irrational would-be mothers. They simply do not presume to consider that some young woman has the insight or privilege to decide whether someone else gets to live or die. Thus, the baby gets a fighting chance and isn't snuffed out ahead of his/her time.

    Meanwhile, pro-choice people condemn the child's very right to live. They seemingly place the value of the mother's comfort above the life of an unborn child. They presume to hold absolute moral authority over a baby who can not fight back. Thus, they leave no choice.
     
  20. gibbz macrumors 68030

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    #20
    That is fine and well, but who are you to decide what is best for a woman's health. If a woman elects for abortion early in the pregnancy, is that morally right? I don't know the answer which is why I don't think anyone should tell another person what they can/cannot do with their bodies in this regard.
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    Its genetic material may well let it be stillborn.
     
  22. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #22
    Since I and other pro-lifers find your terminology equally 'loaded' and misleading, I suggest we use the terms referenced in the study. We all know what they mean, and that way we won't get into an argument which is outside the scope of this particular thread and end up rehashing old arguments that have been had here over and over.

    If you want to start your own thread to debate the terminology surrounding the abortion debate, please feel free to do so. I may even participate! :)
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    Thank you for making your views so crystal clear.
     
  24. themoonisdown09 macrumors 601

    themoonisdown09

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    #24
    I would have to agree with you on this. I also don't understand why some people can't comprehend this.
     
  25. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    #25
    If you're pro-life (misnomer) then you're against giving people the choice to have an abortion. It's not like people who are pro-choice are pro-death like the pro-life name implies.

    If anything it should be pro-choice and anti-choice. Pro-life is just misleading.
     

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