More Fathers Want Paternity Leave; Getting it is a Different Matter

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by bradl, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #1
    If I was offered this, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. Anything to spend more time with my newborn children, let alone give my wife the time to rest. I do see this as a problem in the US, as it doesn't give fathers as much time as they need with their children; they've been charged (a bit too much, IMHO) with being the family provider.. Which is fine, but the cost of not being there is a high one. Plus the stigma that men in the US have about it really grinds gears, as some think that it (paternity leave) is ludicrous.

    What do you think? Should men have paternity leave in the US?

    http://www.npr.org/2014/08/13/33373...ernity-leave-getting-it-is-a-different-matter

    BL.
     
  2. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #2
    Yes. They should be afforded some time. They can use their sick or vacation time or take it without pay via a leave of absence.
     
  3. bradl thread starter macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #3
    Which is what Chandran did, after using his paternity leave. Most men don't have the luxury of paternity leave without using their vacation or sick time. That's the issue.

    BL.
     
  4. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #4
    If we throw out the idea of gender roles, as they should be thrown out, it is only right that men get the equivalent leave to women. Both of these times afforded in the United States, by the way, are far too short.
     
  5. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #5
    I didn't read the article. I just answered your question.
    What's your position? Paid paternity leave beyond sick or vacation time?
     
  6. aerok macrumors 65816

    aerok

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    #6
    Most first world countries have this, there is no reason why USA shouldn't.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. bradl thread starter macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #7
    My position? Paid leave for both, and equal amount, without fear of retribution of job loss from too much time being taken, or criticism from people who think the idea is idiotic:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...layer-to-take-paternity-leave-faces-criticism

    After that, additional time can be taken by vacation or sick leave, as Chandran has done. But some people think that work is more important than family, and that is a problem.

    BL.
     
  8. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Indeed. This thread is likely to get fairly involved. I'm pretty sure the topic has been discussed before, and there are several people vehemently opposed to anyone getting any time off.

    I was at work the morning after my child was born, but that's only because as a freelancer, I only get paid when I book work days. I hadn't been working much in the couple of months leading up to it, and didn't go to an out-of-town job (where I was the supervisor) for the week of the birth. I also had to leave town for a month, 10 days after our son was born. I so, so wish I could have skipped out on that, but it was a huge sum of money to give up, right when I needed it.

    I love that we are on the same level as Swaziland. Freedom!
     
  9. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #9
    Talk about adding more costs to businesses. Required PAID paternity leave? How much does it cost to build that new plant in India, again?
     
  10. bradl thread starter macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #10
    Thank you for proving my point about the stigma and more concerned about business and work than family. Work is not the be all/end all of life. You'll note that productivity has not suffered one bit in the countries where paid paternity leave is offered.

    As a father, I'd think that you'd even see the advantages of that. Unfortunately, you've proven all of us wrong.

    BL.
     
  11. dwfaust macrumors 68040

    dwfaust

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    What a load of crap. When men can get pregnant and push a 7~11 pound baby out of their hoo-hah, then give them maternity/paternity leave. Take your vacation, spend time with your family, then go back to work. I am so freaking tired of "political correctnesss" garbage. God made men and women different. Acknowledge it and move on.

    And, for the record, I believe if both a man and a women do the same job, that they should get the same pay. BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES, both physically and functionally.
     
  12. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #12
    What I see is that when you require a business to pay a father to take 3, 6 or 9 months off... The company has to pay someone else to do that job while he is gone. That is an additional expense. I can assume that you don't care about those expenses. A company like Walmart? No sweat, they can afford it. A small business owner? Add the "living wage", ACA and this... Yes, there will be some more that can't compete.
     
  13. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #13
    I would have been all over having as much time as possible (and I was) when my kids were born. But I stop short of demanding that men and women get equal time. I always felt the longer time for women was to allow them some extra time to recover physically from the 9 months of pregnancy. The father stays home for a few days or a week, maybe two, so the mother can rest and adjust to the new baby. But the mother gets more time to let her body more time towards returning to normal.

    I fail to see how not giving men the same amount of time as women means that someone automatically thinks work is more important than family.

    If you disagree, what amount if time would make you feel like an employer didn't think this way?
     
  14. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #14
    How do international companies manage to survive? Maternity leave, paternity leave, many offer 3 or 4 times the amount of vacation time we have are given in the US.

    If they can figure it out, I think we can too.
     
  15. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #15
    We are already demanding more and more from employers. Do you really want to give them yet another reason to look to Asia as a better place to build their factories?

    You're right we could do it here in the US. We could screw every little business owner right out of business by heaping more and more demands upon them until they just can't compete. Large companies can absorb this stuff.

    When my daughter was born, I was still military. Every service member gets the same leave, 30 days. It's the same from Private to General, male to female. Men or women are free to take their sick days, personal holidays or vacation time after a child is born. If that isn't enough they are able to take unpaid time off.
     
  16. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #16
    What? You mean Europe? That place where the average citizen makes more money, is more self sufficient, tends to engage in more entrepeneural activities, live longer, healther lives, maintain productivity with less hours worked, and basically looks like us 40 years ago?

    ...we tend to ignore them, because their good example tends to get in the way of our rhetoric.
     
  17. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #17
    Oh please.

    Companies are demanding more from their employees. Less vacation time. Longer hours. Unpaid overtime. And if you don't like it, you can go look for another job.

    Turn about is fair play, isn't it? Companies who offer better benefits tend to attract better workers. Loyal workers. More effective workers.

    If they can't or won't offer such things, maybe they shouldn't be in business. If offering paternity leave is going to put someone out of business, they're doing something wrong.

    It's also unbelievable that we are paying for 30 days of paternity leave for military members, but many men aren't offered the same in our own jobs.

    And the fact that our taxes paid your salary for your month of paternity leave while you sit here and complain about how badly companies will be effected is beyond hypocritical. Even for you.
     
  18. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    Right. And in the board room, the executives are asking how much is that plant in India? How much for shipping? What can we get for our real estate here?
     
  19. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    As long as they're considering it, we might as well throw in an extra tax break or three for good measure. Make it real appealing.
     
  20. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    The executives, who are probably making 10 times as much as their workers and have 4 times as much vacation time so they can drag their nannies along with them to their own private islands for vacation, are hypocrites. Just like you.
     
  21. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    Okay, so let's see… Workers here in the USA should have a "living wage", they should have employer paid healthcare, paid maternity/paternity leave. Anything else in the hopper? What else can we heap on to the businesses?

    And what about the single, gay or past child bearing years employees? Isn't it discrimination to give a guy a few months paid time off because his wife had a child when you don't give the single guy a few months off with pay, as well?

    And to set the record straight, I've never had a nanny. A babysitter once in a while but no nanny. I take care of my own child… and even her half-sister, who isn't mine quite often.
     
  22. dwfaust macrumors 68040

    dwfaust

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    #22
    Obviously the gay and past-childbearing years situations don’t matter - as even gay men and old ladies get birth control and maternity coverage as a part of the un-ACA.

    Your mistake here, Southern Dad, is trying to fight this mamby-pamby, touchy-feely, feel good political correctnesss with facts and logic. That stuff is wasted on these libs.
     
  23. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    Yes. And if a company goes out of business because they can't get their sh** together, so be it. 5 more will open up and figure it out. Again, foreign companies have figured it out. I guess you don't believe Americans are as smart as Europeans?

    And how about single women, gay or past child bearing years employees? Have they risen up to protest maternity leave?
     
  24. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #24
    I find it amazing that you hold something as basic as the idea of being able to work a single job for a living in such contempt. You expect people to work themselves to death for a pittance, then turn around and blame them for their own condition.

    It's like kicking someone in the face and saying "it's not my fault you're choking on your own teeth".
     
  25. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #25
    Another one who seems to think Americans aren't as smart as Europeans. They seem to have all of this figured out. Why don't you think we can as well?
     

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