More on Phasing out OS 9, and Pinot (10.3)

arn

macrumors god
Original poster
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
14,798
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eWeek provides some confirmation on the possibility of a lack of OS 9 support in future Macs:

A tweak to new models in its Macintosh line of desktop and portable computers will prevent booting into Mac OS 9, sources said, leaving the Unix-based Mac OS X as the sole operating system.

Spymac provides some further details and confirms that 10.2 will not ship with OS 9.

eWeek also references "Pinot" as the next major Mac OS X update after Jaguar.
 

mymemory

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2001
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Miami
Well, even I have OS9 under my control after so many years... that would be a necessary move by Apple to do.

The problem is not the OS, the problem are the developers that are taking so much time to make the jump. There are lots of usefull applications develop by small companies that are taking their time. I have OSX in one of my partition but I never use it just because 2/3 of the software that I use are in 9.

I'm agree with the movment.
 

StuPid QPid

macrumors member
Pinot?

Mmmm. Pinot Noir, a full bloodied, mature red wine. Let hope the same's true for the next revision of OS X :)

The following description I found is rather apt!

"Pinot Noir embodies complexity and delicacy at the same time, outpouring with elaborate flavors that may be simply ravishing. Yet the Pinot Noir grape is well-known for its fickleness and genetic changeability, making it a truly challenging varietal for winemakers to master."

Cheers
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,123
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Lancashire
If the new powermacs won't boot into OS 9 then the mac is next to useless for audio till all the plug-in, sequencer and software synth companies port all their stuff to OS X!

Not to mention all those hardware systems. Protools, Korg OASYS, Creamware... Anyone with any kind of DSP based system isn't going to be buying a new mac for quite some time.

Sure, we've got Reason, Peak, Unity Session and a few others. Cubase SX and Logic will be out by the end of the year (I assume) but that still leaves lots of plug-ins with no OS X upgrade, people become attached to certain plug-ins for aspects of their sound. Starting from scratch with just a sequencer, the stock plug-ins and a few software synths could stiffle people creativity because they'd no longer have the tools they need to be creative.

I don't doubt that this time next year they'll be tons of OS X native audio stuff and anyone still running in OS 9 will be doing so purely because they've got a highly tweaked older model or they simply can't afford to upgrade any of their software to OS X native versions.

People who use macs for audio badly need as much DSP as they can get, a powermac with a 1.2Ghz or above G4 and DDR would be a beast of a system no matter what sequencer platform you use, it we're left out due to OS issues with the new range it's more than a little bit unfair.
 

sparkleytone

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2001
2,307
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Greensboro, NC
the idea of Pinot is interesting. the way technology moves, I would expect it to be the "next" OS for Apple. OS 11 if you will. what is interesting to me, is what is there to do next?? I really think they've put together an OS that encompasses the ideas of what a modern OS should do. Sure there will be updates and additions, but what is the next major concept??
 

job

macrumors 68040
Jan 25, 2002
3,794
3
in transit
Originally posted by Billicus
What about all those OS 9 games I still have? What about them...
Use Classic I guess. The framerates will suffer, but unless you want to play on a Windoze box...
 

msbsound

macrumors regular
Jul 16, 2002
124
0
Charlotte, NC
Still need 9...

Well until the audio industry gets going on X, some of us are out of luck with new powermacs...Hopefully digidesign has PT6 ready to roll right after Jaguar.

MB
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,502
314
Middle Earth
Apple needs to push forward

Those who need to run OS9 because of their apps will have to stay until their apps have been upgraded to OSX. This is not Apples fault per se but the Developers job to keep their apps up to date.

I like OS9 but it had run out of steam. RIP OS9.
 

kumichou

macrumors newbie
Jul 19, 2002
9
0
NE, Ohio
What's all the crabbing about?

Wasn't it just recently that we heard that Macs that come out in Fall 2003 won't boot OS 9, but Classic will still be there? Hmm, it took almost a year to release 10.2 after 10.1 (September 2001 IIRC). This news would seem to confirm that previous rumor.

Frankly, it doesn't bother me a bit that this is happening. Yes it sucks for people who have invested in a lot of OS 9 software, but when X 10.3 comes out (assuming they keep with 1 year between major updates), OS X itself will be 2.5 years old already. I don't think it's fair to require that the OS has to support your older software. Look at the jump from 8.6 to 9.0. Sound Manager changed, 9.0 broke quite a bit of software, etc. What happened then? You grabbed updates, either free or paid for (I remember work ordering a few new versions of Suitcase just because of the 9.0 upgrade...then again for the 9.2 update).

Apple & the Mac OS aren't the only ones having this "you will have to upgrade eventually" stance. Microsoft has done it (though admittedly a bit too often) as well as other vendors. However, I think that like the move to the PPC from 68K, dropping booting support for OS 9 is a necessary thing.
 

rugby

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2002
222
0
chicago
they're talking about 10.3, which won't be out for a year or two. Give them a break and don't start wild insane rantings yet. If your software hasn't been ported over to X 4 years after X has been out maybe it's time to look for different software.
 

red cap

macrumors newbie
Jul 23, 2002
2
0
Re: Apple needs to push forward

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
Those who need to run OS9 because of their apps will have to stay until their apps have been upgraded to OSX. This is not Apples fault per se but the Developers job to keep their apps up to date.

I like OS9 but it had run out of steam. RIP OS9.
EXCUSE ME, NUCKING ****, SO I GUESS ITS MY FAULT!

STOP PUSHING
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,889
1,478
Palookaville
Originally posted by hitman


Use Classic I guess. The framerates will suffer, but unless you want to play on a Windoze box...
I'm no game maven by any means, but it just so happens that the only game I ever play does not work in Classic. It requires RAVE acceleration -- and apparently there's something broken in Apple's RAVE for Classic extension, and the developer is disinterested (for good reason) in working around it. This game only runs properly in OS 9.
 

ibjoshua

macrumors 6502a
Jan 17, 2002
607
19
New Zealand
Re: Pinot?

Originally posted by StuPid QPid
Mmmm. Pinot Noir, a full bloodied, mature red wine.
maybe. but it may be Pinot Gris. a kinda boring white. now give me a chardonnay OS any day.

josh
 

gropo

macrumors member
Jun 25, 2002
74
0
Queens, NYC
Pinot eh?

Interesting... Moving from a line of "Big Cats" codenames (indicating faster-and-fiercer I suppose) to a line of Grape varieties (or perhaps wine) indicating what? More refined bouquet? Better aged? Interesting...
 

mymemory

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2001
2,495
0
Miami
Originally posted by barkmonster
If the new powermacs won't boot into OS 9 then the mac is next to useless for audio till all the plug-in, sequencer and software synth companies port all their stuff to OS X!

Not to mention all those hardware systems. Protools, Korg OASYS, Creamware... Anyone with any kind of DSP based system isn't going to be buying a new mac for quite some time.
The problem will be the investment that takes to have the same thing for OSX, because there is not upgrade from OS9 to OSX, you may have to get the entire thing again.
 

MacArtist

macrumors member
Jul 24, 2002
75
0
Re: Apple needs to push forward

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
Those who need to run OS9 because of their apps will have to stay until their apps have been upgraded to OSX. This is not Apples fault per se but the Developers job to keep their apps up to date.

I like OS9 but it had run out of steam. RIP OS9.
I run OS 9 for 1 thing, and 1 thing only, to play Rogue Spear. There is noway this game will ever get updated to OS X. It's 3 years old, but still (IMHO) one of the best FPS games around. And to play it in Classic is just unacceptable. Bad framerates, poor mouse response, etc.

But back to the discussion at hand. I'm surprised that Apple has kept OS 9 and Classic for that matter as long as they have. When software developers realize that they have no choice but to develope for OS X, the apps will come.
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,123
12
Lancashire
It does say January for the new OS X release after Jaguar, that's got to mean the next range of macs to come out this year will boot into OS 9 but anyone buying a mac after january will be stuck if they can't get all the software they need by then.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see digidesign release Protools X in both full and LE versions before october of this year, hints on the digidesign messageboards suggest it could be before september even. I know digidesign will be hard at work getting all their plug-ins working under it too, where that leaves the likes of bombfactory, McDSP, Waves, Native Instruments, DUY and others is anyone's guess.

seeing as I havn't got a hope in hell of buying a new mac this side of february '03 (If I'm lucky), I just hope I can get a good deal on either the entry level or mid range from this years new lineup, at least then I'd have a mac that makes my beige G3 look like an abacus, runs any of my current software with no problems and isn't so old it's out of date.

If I can get a minimum of a 1Ghz G4 with DDR sometime over the next 6 months and it runs OS 9, i'll be happy till more software becomes OS X native.
 

MM2270

macrumors regular
May 2, 2002
119
0
New York
Hmm... not sure I like it

I'm not sure if I like the sound of new Macs not being able to boot into 9. I use OS X nearly full-time both at home and work, but at times, I still need to run repair utilities on my disks. Those apps currently only run in 9, and to use them effectively, you need to boot off the CD (in OS 9). DiskWarrior is a perfect example. Now, if these new Macs don't allow booting into 9, then I imagine I also could not boot into 9 on a CD. This would be a fundamental change in the Mobo maybe that just won't allow it. If so, that rots! So I can't run repair utilities if this happens? And don't talk to me about booting into single user mode or whatever to run the disk check. I don't believe that does as good a job as DW or Norton (even though I really don't like Norton)

Also, consider this. If you buy one of these new Macs, and Classic is already installed, all is cool. But what happens if your disk goes south and you need to reinstall everything, on a new disk for example. How can you install 9? You can't since the OS 9 installer is a Classic app, and if Classic isn't present, you can't run the installer. So, you'd want to boot up from the OS 9.x.x CD right? Yeah, well what if it doesn't allow booting from a CD? Than guess what, you're screwed, at least if you still need Classic at all. Sorry, but I think this is a really stupid idea, and I hope this will only happen sometime down the line and not in the very near future.

Sounds to me like Apple is doing whatever it takes to FORCE adoption of OS X. Maybe they should try tactics like, oh, I dunno, LOWERING the price of Jaguar, for instance. By making it nearly prohibitively expensive for the average Mac user to buy X, they are killing potential upgraders, so now they want to do this, so if you buy a New Mac you have NO CHOICE but to use OS X? Wow Apple, this is really a bad move. Someone over there needs a lobotomy!!
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,390
9
toronto
music machine

i'm in that mac audio boat, too. i run proTools LE, emagic logic, and sometimes digital performer. plus all the software synths i've got.

the reality is i've got a dual g4 that runs this stuff now, and it's fine. i've had the machine for nearly two years and it'll work for many more (heck, my mid-80s Mac 512ke still boots and works -- and i can sequence on it!)

just because os9 booting goes away in future osX releases doesn't mean what i've already got running stops working. yes, the audio companies will catch up eventually, and that will likely be long before i'm ready to buy a new powermac. so no worries here.

magic question:

does anyone know what in Pinot would prevent booting os9, and what would prevent me from buying a Pinot-loaded machine, wiping the hard drive and installing os9.2?
 

wilhelmd

macrumors member
Jan 19, 2002
39
0
Re: Hmm... not sure I like it

Originally posted by MM2270
Also, consider this. If you buy one of these new Macs, and Classic is already installed, all is cool. But what happens if your disk goes south and you need to reinstall everything, on a new disk for example. How can you install 9? You can't since the OS 9 installer is a Classic app, and if Classic isn't present, you can't run the installer. So, you'd want to boot up from the OS 9.x.x CD right?
No. The restore CD's that come with each new Mac will put your hard drive back to the way it was when the machine shipped. So the restore CD's for new Mac's will include some (stripped-down?) version of 9.

When I got my 600 Combo iBook, I had to use four restore CD's to install everything! This is a smart move from Apple, because when they launch new operating system versions, they only need to replace the CD's that come with the machine, not reformat the hard drive!
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,390
9
toronto
Originally posted by barkmonster

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see digidesign release Protools X in both full and LE versions before october of this year
a friend of mine has been running a ProTools LE OSX alpha version for many, many months now. it's coming.
 

dwishbone

macrumors regular
Jul 24, 2002
240
0
On the Moon
Re: Re: Apple needs to push forward

Originally posted by MacArtist


I run OS 9 for 1 thing, and 1 thing only, to play Rogue Spear. There is noway this game will ever get updated to OS X. It's 3 years old, but still (IMHO) one of the best FPS games around. And to play it in Classic is just unacceptable. Bad framerates, poor mouse response, etc.
How do you know it will never get ported? Sometimes people will make unofficial ports. Look at Quake and Quake II for example. they were never meant to run in OS X...but they do thanks to some great programmers. Someone also ported the Ambrosia classic Maelstrom. I once heard of a Duke Nukem 3D port in the works. That would be awesome.
 
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