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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by obeygiant, Aug 20, 2007.
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Not at all surprised.
And the pendulum starts swinging back the other way...
... and it's about time.
Ha, I was just about to say something like that. Y'all didn't believe those of us who spoke of the pendulum swinging the other way eventually. Took it awhile, I guess, but here comes even more backlash.
Dem better get off their collective butts and capitalize on it.
Bye bye! Try not to let the door hit your collective a**es!
They better, but if the current congress is an indication, they won't. Pity too because this calibre of incompetence demonstrated by the current administration doesn't come around that often.
Why do you say that? I thought things were going swimmingly in Iraq? That's the big issue of the day, isn't it? And since All Is Well there, why the GOP rush for the door?
Ron Paul is Republican and is against Iraq, correct?
I have been scratching my head over what has been going on in congress, and with the democratic primary races. Some makes sense, much of it does not.
One of the worst things the republican political strategists (like Rove) have done, is killed honest political debate. Nowadays, if you open your mouth, you are on FOX that night, having your words completely twisted, so the end result is lies. So, if a candidate plans to begin troop pullout from Iraq, they really cannot speak of it. You can imagine the fallout from the media reporting.
There are a great number of things which I would do, but could not talk about specifically during a campaign:
1) Disband Homeland Security - this was a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11 and they have taken on a life of themselves. Let the agencies do their job.
2) Re-write the Patriot Act - remove the provisions that are unconstitutional.
3) Reverse Bush's dictatorial powers from the office of President.
4) Fire every Bush appointee - starting with the 150 attorneys from Pat Robertson's law school.
5) Begin an investigation into the rape of the environment.
6) Finally - GET RID OF LOBBYISTS - now and forever.
7) Begin investigations into the profiteering from the Iraq war.
8) Cut-off all funding of private security forces and private intelligence companies.
First, and foremost, STOP THE WAR. Bring all of our carrier groups over there. Tell the faction leaders, we are making an orderly exit. If anyone attempts to harm our troops as they are leaving, we will resort to full-scale conventional warfare to prevent it.
I would like to see congress begin more investigations right now. I think that would show a commitment to reversing the catastrophic policies of the current administration. I think it would also draw favor with some moderate republicans.
What happens when you have two equally unispiring factions vying for national control?
Congress approval rating at 18%
I agree with all your points except this one: you are occupying a foreign sovereign state under false pretences, so it's up to you to extricate yourselves without resorting to further bluster and killing. Don't add the threat of waging "full-scale war" on a defenceless country already under occupation, whatever that would mean in the circumstances, to the catalogue of shame.
The question is WHY has Congress failed to capture the 'hearts and minds'. Let's face it, the Democratic leadership seems to be acting like they cannot loose in 2008, as long as they do not screw-up. They really do not have to make any real blunders. All they have to do is NOT give the far-right media piranhas anything to attack them with. And they have and will continue to do so.
Republican campaign has been essentially since the Nixon era. You get your candidate to smile and seem 'All American'. Then you turn the attack dogs loose on the opposition. If nothing exists, you invent it. You make them campaign defending themselves, while yours sings 'home, home on the range'. I think the Democrats thought the American people would see through this obvious 'smoke and mirrors'. Well, they did not. It looks like the Democrats are finally waking up to the realization, you cannot win against an adversary who lacks any moral principles.
The Democrats do not have the numbers to overturn a Bush veto. There is little to be gained by turning public sentiment against him. He will go down as the most loathed President in history. The Democrats cannot do anything about Iraq, which would jeopardize the troops we still have there. They do not have the Constitutional authority to order them home. If the American people expect a new congress to come in and stop the war, they do not understand government.
Somethings which need to be done, and which can be done without a great deal of political fallout, are the congressional investigational committees. They have started and are making some headway. There is an oversight committee for every branch of government. IMHO everyone of them has sufficient reason to investigate, and bring charges against corporations, and Bush appointees, who have spent the past several years breaking the law.
I think this will go a long way in bolstering public support for the Democratic congress. I also think there is a large group of Goldwater Republicans who are totally fed up with the neocons. I would love to see this group regain its former prominence.
I am not really going to disagree with you philosophically. Allowing our forces to leave peacefully is the goal. We cannot demobilize in a day. As each day passes, those left behind become more vulnerable. It is not their fault. We will be ending the occupation. An orderly withdrawal is required. We cannot allow our remaining troops to be subject to retaliation by opportunists. This is actually an incentive for the faction leadership to curtail violence by small groups. We must protect our troops. This worked in Vietnam, and not a single sortie was required.
nicely said, SMM. Whatever anyone's position on the war is, it has to keep in mind allowing more unnecessary troop deaths during a withdrawal serves no one's interests.
I do not think that the public will give more support to a Democratic led congress that does nothing but investigate Bush. yes the public doesn't like Bush or approve of him right now, but we want to see the dems do something. With so many republicans trying to distance themselves from Bush it should not be that hard to find enough defectors to switch sides especially if the dems move to a moderate agenda that many republicans can agree with.
I would completely support such a congress- but they'd also have to impeach, try and remove him and his entire regime.
I had no doubt that you would, but you are not the general public. I don't think the average joe really wants to see congress waste its time with another impeachment trial that goes no where and gets nothing done.
You missed the last part of my sentence- and how exactly would holding this clown accountable be a waste of time?
Republicans TALK like they're trying to distance themselves from Bush, but until the start VOTING like they're trying to distance themselves from Bush, it's all just mouth-music.
Let's face it, the modern GOP is not going to give Democrats any credit for moving their policies to the right to try to appease the GOP. It will just be taken as a sign of weakness, and exploited appropriately.
And I'm sorry, but a moderate agenda that many Republicans can agree to? How about one that many AMERICANS can agree to? Like the majorities who say bring our troops home?
Your post said "try and remove him and his entire regime" which would never actually be accomplished because the republicans would block it. So in my opinion it would waste a lot of time and money and not accomplish anything except give us all something to argue about. I am not defending Bush. I just think that since the Dems won the 2006 election and now have control of both houses, I would like to see something occur other than investigations. If that is all they can do, I don't think the american public will be all to pleased with them.
Then I guess the answer would be to vote out the Republicans blocking the investigations, wouldn't you think? Don't think that can't happen- paybacks are a bitch.
Yes that would be one answer. But I don't think that we will be able to vote out any republicans before we also elect a new president. Once Bush is gone, I really don't want to see congress spending all their time trying to bring charges against him. If they focus on the past they will lose their ability to affect the future.
You either did not read what I wrote, or did not understand it. If you have followed the threads, I have been pretty clear about my support for impeachment. But, my last post specifically focused on investigations of corporations, and Bush appointees. Are you are saying we should not investigate:
1) War profiteering
2) Kickbacks and compensation for rolling back environmental laws
3) Influence peddling
4) Inappropriate use of federal agencies for political purposes
5) ..and so on...?
There is a list of unanswered crimes a mile long. I thing the American people want to have their faith in government restored. That is only gong to happen until after there is a reckoning. The truth must come out and the guilty punished. Why do you think the approval numbers are so low?
Oh silly you! Don't you know that investidating blow jobs is far more important?
Even though I think perjury is a serious crime, I think that trying to investigate and impeach Clinton was a waste of time as well.